“I Can’t Date A Male Who Is Out”

i was having an interesting conversation with a wolf tonight.
the one i have a high key crush on.
he was telling me about his life and the gays he use to run with.
straight up he said…

“i’m gay,
but i don’t fuck with a lot of gays like that.
i’m out,
but i realized that gay males were fucked up in friendships.”

he admitted he has more straight friends than gay ones.

one of my home vixens,
who happens to be a lesbian,
said the same thing to me a few weeks ago.
i asked her if she was going to any gay pride events in dc.

“oh God.
you know i don’t like a lot of gays.”

she is out as well.
a couple foxholers have also said the same thing.
it is really interesting view.

i can’t date a wolf who is out.
i can’t fuck with wolves who are d/l af either.
i’m only doing in the middle.
i work better with wolves who are discreet.
the “out” world is a different one.
its almost like some of them are dehumanized from feeling any kind of emotion.
they claim they want real friendships/relationships and do the opposite.

“you can hit me up and talk to me about anything!
don’t be scared!
i’m cool af!” –
they say.

you hit em up and they too good to converse.

most out gays i have encountered act like straight up and down,
high school ass bitches.
just mean and catty for no fuckin reason.
you know you can still be friends with someone…

…even if you aren’t attracted to them,

it’s a shocking concept,
i know.
it’s not about what you look like,
how much money you have,
or what gym membership you own.
it’s about character and loyalty.

will this person drop what they’re doing to rescue my gay ass?
can we talk on the phone and forget how long we been on it?
do they check in on me when they haven’t heard from me in a while?
if i was to take ill tomorrow,
will they show up at the hospital to see me?

i’m tired of these friendships based on sex.
“we can’t be friends if we can’t fuck each other” type shit.
like the concept of a male and a vixen can’t be genuine friends.
everything is sending nudes and “we were hybrids together one night”.
i don’t try to fuck my friends so…

…but maybe i’m just weird.
i do try to fuck the wolf i like,
and even with him,
i want to establish a solid foundation together.

the foxholers are a clear representation of who i would fuck with.
you guys who read and comment seem to have the same values as i.
we appreciate each other here.
i LOVE that shit.
i like those learned how to treat others early on in this life.
you understand what “friendship” is and aren’t catty or judgmental.
you are the only real gay connection i have after star fox.
sometimes i feel an outcast,
but i just learned to stay out of all the drama the gay world can bring.

Is that wrong to font out loud?

lowkey: one of the foxholers told me one time in emails…

“i understand why some gays chase on ‘straight?’ males now.
they represent the type of males we all want that we can’t find within the gay world.”

i thought that was real af.

Author: jamari fox

the fox invited to the blogging table.

72 thoughts on ““I Can’t Date A Male Who Is Out””

  1. It’s sad, but I understand. We know exactly how some gays are QUICK to clock your tea and shade for filth. Honestly, it gets tiring after a while and makes you not trust anyone.

    1. ^i’m so glad someone understands what i’m trying to say!

      it is really tiring.
      it’s not like straight males who are friends.
      it is some whole other shit i refuse to deal with.

    2. Which is why I refuse to go to gay events in general.

      And J you’re so right, for some gays it’s almost an insult if you tell them you just want to be friends WITHOUT having sex with them. Like wtf? Personally for ME, if I have sex with you then you are NOT my friend. Once that line is crossed then who says that you wouldn’t come back for a second round if we decide to hang out again? The relationship will solely be routed in sex and to me that’s not what friendship is.

  2. J, I feel this is straight up discrimination.. You need to judge people on the content of their characters not sexuality.. It’s said to hear a gay guy say they don’t fuck with their own kind to the honest.. What makes you so different? You and your friends are gay too..?!

    I feel this post missed talking about assessments of people’s characters. It’s just really bad how the media have blown up fem characters and their characteristics and associated it with certain groups of people. I just don’t like when people express their higher pedestal but they can be catty and petty af aswell.. but just because they are not fem they feel it’s ok to say stuff like this..

    It’ just said because there’s probably guys out there who don’t fit the ‘straight male’ look and characteristics but are the most fierce and loyal but will be over looked etc..

    I just always see stuff from a different perspective..

    1. ^jm,
      it’s not just me with these same opinions.
      even someone who is out doesn’t fuck with some of his own.
      i am black,
      but i don’t fuck with most blacks.
      i know popular straights who don’t mix with the other popular ones.
      we all have different experiences that shape our lives and who we are.
      it isn’t wrong to hear a different opinion even if you don’t agree.

      most of the outs ive met were masculine and still mean.
      it has NOTHING to do with being masculine or fem.
      the wolf im talking about it masculine and out.
      he isn’t even fucking with others who are like him.
      so that is irrelevant.

    2. @JustMe…I think he is talking about interacting with people from his own perspective, not those of the media. Correct me if I’m wrong, J. Not trying to speak for you. LOL

      I’m sure we’ve all had people act towards us like that, acting shady AF. I know I’ve had it done to me, and I’d just met the guy. He was the friend of my best friend’s boyfriend at the time. Didn’t know me from Adam, had just met me, and he kept throwing subtle shots at me. I ignored him for as long as I could, but when we sat down to eat, and another friend of his joined us…he decided to ramp it up and try to show out. I guess he must’ve done it to others and they never said anything back to him. I told him straight up, you have one more time to come at me out of your mouth sideways because I will come across this table and fuck you up. Try me if you want to. Then he goes and tries to play all innocent.

      I’ve found that gay men, both straight acting and fem types, can be shady as hell. However, the fem ones I’VE encountered (and that’s based on MY interaction with them and not through what I see on TV) are the ones that love to cause drama. I’m puzzled when people get offended when other people point out their observations and experiences. Truth be told, I’ve had more drama in my life fucking around with dudes, than I did messing with women…and that to me is CRAZY! It’s like why bother?!

  3. Count me in the number as one who is just about done with the Gays! As each day goes by I find myself less likely to want to be around gay dudes period including some of my really good friends. Recently I went out to a small gathering for a friends Bday with some dudes I knew and some I didnt. The event started out okay but by the end of the day it was a nightmare. Black punks and all this behavior of wanting to be cute and throw shade is such a turn off. When your only conversation is other punks and reality television shows it is time for me to exit. I cant relate at all. I am now a bonafide gym rat so my free time is spent around either str8 dudes or gay dudes like myself who act str8 so subconsciously I think I have developed more of a str8 persona and my height and muscles help me pull it off with ease. It is so hard to find a group of gay dudes who are just chill and easy going without a lot of drama at least in my area. I rarely go to a gay club or party unless it is at someone house or with a group of people I know and even then I am hesitant. So many gay dudes I see give off such negative energy and Out gay dudes are the worst IMO. Seriously most of the so called Out Black dudes I see were never in to begin with or they love white boys. I have rarely ever in my gay life seen a masculine Out Black dude, I know they exist somewhere, but it rare for me to see it other than Instagram.

    1. Tajan, I was thinking about you the other day, I always love to read your comments. You have to comment more bro lol.

    2. @Tajan…do you feel those who are out feel the need to make sure others are out as well, whether they want that knowledge public or not? I think those types are dangerous/treacherous people.

      1. god, I hate people that do and act like that. Like the dude with Kerry Rhodes a couple years back. Just completely bitchass.

    3. I’m the same way!

      I don’t even like to talk about sexuality even if I think a dude might be gay because I feel like it will jinx the vibe if we’re getting along.

    4. Same here. Hard to find regular chill dudes. Can we just have a drink at a bar without you wanting to fuck…

      Where are you T

  4. hmm i don’t know if i necessarily agree with you, jamari. yes, a lot of gays are catty, gossipy, and petty. many of them are too interested in being “gaylebrities” than leading genuine lives. increasingly, i am seeing more straight men act this way too. i can’t say most of my friends are gay because i operate in a 90%+ straight world, but my friends who are gay (women, men, trans women, trans men, etc) are all out. they lead regular lives, they have regular jobs, they do the dishes and the laundry and deal with all the bullshit… and they are all out. i feel a way about you adding all these negative connotations to the word “out”. being out doesn’t mean screaming you’re gay from the rooftops, it means being proud of it and not taking steps to hide it. (i wonder if the type of “out” gay men you’ve encountered has to do with you being in NYC. i’m in the midwest.)

    strip away all this foolishness and at the end of the day, we all have the ability to be petty, gossipy, catty and much more on our bad days regardless of our sexuality because we are human. that doesn’t make us better or worse than others.

    didn’t mean to write a dissertation but this upset me because i feel as if you are adding negative meaning to being gay and out which really rubbed me the wrong way. being gay should not be hindersome to others or us, and we need to take steps to normalize our existence. being out and proud helps do that. i usually agree with you. disappointed.

    1. ^jr,
      thank you for the comment.

      personally speaking,
      that is MY experience.
      i am entitled to speak on my experience and what i have been through.
      judging from other comments,
      they also had the same experience too.
      even the lesbians are not fucking with their own!

      you may have another experience,
      but with everyone opinion or point of view,
      there is some truth to what those are saying.

  5. I personally can’t do the discreet shit. I like some freedom with what I can do in a relationship. It shouldn’t only be limited to playing house. On the other hand, my relationship doesn’t need to be a product to be consumed by others.

    I know the scene can be very messy and dysfunctional, but I don’t see the correlation between being out and having those two and other bad traits. And what makes you think the discreets have less baggage? A lot of generalizations.

  6. To be honest with you this. Like I only have 1 gay friend that I talk to daily and everybody else it’s been this weird situation that was either “let’s fuck and be friends,” “I have 2 of those that’s old you just have one and got it this year #sad,” or “I fucked this guy and that guy and etc. Let’s talk about just fuckin.”

    It gets tiring just dealing with out gays that are legit the same or just see you as one thing or another that they can gain from, but also I can’t with the Super D/L dudes either. It feels like we haven’t grown as a community with the times.

    1. ^im gonna say this and put MOST.
      usually people think im saying ALL when it comes to the entire community.

      i feel like MOST gays have this imaginary comradeship.
      meaning we come together to fight common enemies,
      but we also fight and harm each other.
      so we are fighting the good fight to be accepted amongst the straights,
      but we fight and drag each other for being who we are.
      if that makes any sense…

      ive been around some out gays,
      at school and at work,
      who were absolutely nasty to other gays and straights.
      outing the discreet and DL ones or talking about their clothes and such.
      as soon as they’re discriminated against,
      they are confused as to why they got this karma lol

      just my experience.

      1. Yeah I know it’s not all it is most that’s what I meant to say I don’t want to down every gay guy and I agreed w/ your first statement because it’s true our community doesn’t have a good intracommunity comradeship. Instead the focus is being as fucked up and nasty as possible and thinking somebody will want to stick around for that and not getting why they are alone or not loved.

        It reminds me of how when bgc was in it’s hey day a lot of the camaraderie was positive, there were still bad apples but there was still a closeness in ideology and etc now it’s like who can be the coldesst bitch and say the stupidest of shit and shade/clock everybody else.

  7. Bless his heart – I bet the guy is in his early to mid 20’s. Its a ‘gay rite of passage’. Then you get a bit older, and realize that it’s the people who know your struggles that make the better friends. I may be wrong, but I would love to hear his views in 20 years.

  8. I feel you on this Jamari. I have never been to a gay event, gay club etc but when I come out, I think I want to experience it for myself. I have heard everything you just wrote about the out gays, and of course that doesn’t pertain to all out gays. I tried something different recently, I got on a gay app and talk to a couple gay guys. I’ll talk about two of them, the first was a hybrid and out. He was cool for the most part but kept forcing the issue that I need to come out to be happy. I told him I understood where he was coming from, but I wasn’t ready. The second dude said he was a dl and masculine and from his pictures he fit the description, but when we video chatted he was a queen with a nasty attitude. So, I deleted the app, and said screw it lol. My thing is this as gay men some of us are different. I love masculine men, I am attracted to dominance. For the last few years I have turned into a fitness head. I built my little small frame into what I say is the little fox muscle body. I got my chest bigger, pulled my waistline in, squatted my ass off to get a bigger booty. I’m aiming for that male coca bottle shape lol. I wrote that to say is the gym is where it’s at for me right now. That is one of the main ways for me to meet my potential wolf (hopefully) and I would love to have a fox friend who can relate to where I’m at in my life. I think we all need a friend who can relate to us, and help us with certain aspects in life. As gay men some of use are different, and sometimes I do see that the out gays can be so mean and judgmental if your not out. Hopefully this made sense I’m at work trying to piece all this together lol.

    1. ^how is it self loathing and discriminating?

      i love myself.
      i love the foxhole.
      is it discrimination when i say i don’t fuck with most blacks or most straights?
      or most whites?

      1. How does the statement below not reek of discrimination, pushing us back into the closet, making us feel ashamed of being gay, taking away all hope that we can be loved if we are out?

        i can’t date a wolf who is out.
        i can’t fuck with wolves who are d/l af either.
        i’m only doing in the middle.
        i work better with wolves who are discreet.
        the “out” world is a different one.
        its almost like they are dehumanized from feeling any kind of emotion.
        they claim they want real friendships/relationships and do the opposite.

        1. ^im sorry…
          did I tell YOU to do that?
          what i eat doesn’t make you shit.
          what i want to date doesn’t represent the entire community.
          i was speaking of ME and MY desires.
          you made my entire statement,
          about my life and my personal opinion,
          all about you.

        2. ^furthermore,
          there are many different type of gays,
          who love themselves,
          who choose to be discreet…

          if i didn’t love myself,
          and love others like me,
          this blog wouldn’t exist.
          so please don’t insult me.

  9. every relationship has its pluses and minuses. it’s all about what you are willing to deal with

    I’ve mostly dated dl or discreet dudes. I’ve done the out thing but usually I didn’t know they were out until after they showed who they were and started sharing too much of our business and playing games yo the point that if we were on a “break” all of a sudden their friends tried to holla. even when I turned them down the story was I had sex with all the friends…too much for me

    dating discreet dudes and dl dudes comes with other drama. when they wanna just hang with their straight friends who don’t know you may not always be included ….for gear that a “bae” might slip out. or they feel torn between where they spend time or having to flirt with girls to keep up appearances.

    even discreet dudes sometimes don’t know how to show attention at times as they try to figure out how to be discreet and proud of who you are and who you love.

    each person has to be clear on what they want in a relationship up front and communicate it up front so you let people know what you will and will not settle for. too often we end up frustrated and waste time not having conversations in the beginning. People then are not themselves trying to figure out what the other person may or may not like. put it out there early. there are over 300 billion people in the world…there is someone for everybody

      1. We make things too hard by first not being real to ourselves and comfortable with whoever the fuck we are on any given day then not real with other people and put on too many masks. You go crazy trying to be so many things to so many people.

        There were qualities in the “out” people I loved but the problem’s came when they weren’t honest with themselves and being who they were. They were one way with me and another way with someone else. If I had known I might not have eventually perceived them a’s a liar that likes drama…I might have been able to help them grow and grow up and realize that extra shit isn’t necessary.

        1. ^i think another issue we don’t talk about stuff like this.
          we highlight the “sex” in “sexuality” but sweep under the rug other issues in our community.
          some gays have been scorned by other gays and stay clear.
          regardless of being out,
          and DL.
          we should welcome those experiences because they can teach us about others and ourselves.
          anything else is a fairy tale.

    1. @Tony, Bro this is some real Shit you are talking right here. I just ended a relationship of almost a year a couple of months ago due to this very thing of not ironing out differences up front until they came to a head and I admit I literally snapped I was so frustrated because I was not telling this dude how I really felt about a lot of things in order to keep the peace. It was a learning experience that I am grateful for.

  10. Most of my sentiments on this touchy issue have been expressed by others in the comments. But I’m conflicted in a sense. When you see a married gay couple who are both successful in their careers, travel, dog, cars, and house, they are typically white couples or interracial. Rarely do I see this dynamic with two Black gay men. Why? Because most of us aren’t living our truths. We are still closeted and we look down our noses on out brothers.

    So if you are a Black gay man who wants to live a genuine healthy life with a partner, chances are you may find yourself with a white man because the dynamics are different among the brothers. Just a thought..

  11. I can honestly say I spent YEARS trying to establish friendships with men that were bi or gay and I truly believe they are not suitable friends for me.

    Most of them are either super desperate for a relationship and will inevitably try to force the friendship into that direction, or they’ll send you inappropriate pictures and try to make the friendship sexual. When you refuse either of those advances they’ll leave you high and dry.

    Keep in mind they’ll spend the entire time trying to possess or fuck you instead of trying to get to know you.

    I have less than no desire to attend any gay club or gay event.

    Even casual conversations with straight men (or men I perceive to be straight) in public places like the gym or barbershop is more fulfilling than all my attempts to befriend or get to know gay dudes put together.

    I’m not putting straight men on a pedestal at all, but even the educated and intelligent gay men only operate on basal instincts. They only see other men as sex objects or objects to be possessed until they’re tired of you.

    Straight men often have no ulterior motives.

    1. @Jay. I like this comment.

      I’ve dealt with guys where their main intent was to try to fuck me. With me, I have an intent going into situations, as to where the relationship/friendship will go. It’s either we will be friends or we can be friends with benefits. Unfortunately, I’ve never got to the point of friends with benefits because I take too long to try to get to know a person before anything sexual happens…so kats take off. I found a lot of guys will say they want one thing and do the total opposite. They would say yeah, we can be friends, and then they would make a move and if I wouldn’t reciprocate, they would get upset. But I told you that I wasn’t looking to fuck around with you like that…so how am I wrong? It’s like a challenge to them, to see if they can get me to go against my code.

      My best friend (RIP) initially tried to get with me, but when he saw it wasn’t happening, we had one of the best friendships/relationships I’ve ever had. Lol

      If I can have a conversation with a gay/bi dude without it starting off with are you a top/bottom/versatile/cut/uncut, then I think it might be an interesting conversation. IF it starts off with that, more than likely they’re looking to bust a nut. IJS

      1. ^i love your comments as i agree 100%.

        star fox and i never tried to fuck each other.
        i was able to hug him and hold his hand.
        he never sent me nudes or i did with him.
        it was a real genuine friendship and i miss him tremendously.
        ive connected with many of you in emails and it’s great convo.
        so it CAN HAPPEN…
        but it’s a challenge

      2. Yeah, my boy tried to get at me initially. Afterwards though, things were great between us. That friendship blossomed into something great. We were open with one another, and even if we argued, we never stayed mad at one another long at all. He used to say, I can’t go to bed mad at you because if something happened I would never be able to forgive myself, and I wouldn’t have the opportunity to say I love you one last time.

      3. I really haven’t had a sexual attraction to a guy in a while.

        Of course I notice attractive ones but sgl guys have never stimulated me mentally or talked to me in a way that gave me the impression they see me as a human being NOT just here for their own sexual desires.

  12. i love that this is a REAL issue among gay/bi males that most can agree with.
    this is something that we need to discuss.
    there are some gays who don’t fuck with other gays and there are legit reasons why.
    instead of being rude,
    it’s okay to see other perspectives from gay men who are struggling to find companionship and even friendship.

    i am not scared to go there and show what my issues are.
    it’s being honest and i appreciate your honesty.
    i don’t want to “keep shit inside” to please everyone either.
    at this point on my life,
    “pleasing everyone” is done.

  13. Hit dogs hollering lol

    The same people up in arms probably brag about not going to gay clubs, or they prefer white gay clubs, or they’ll holler about their being nothing but bottoms in the club.

    1. ^i think some of us need to stop being so sensitive and learn to listen.
      jumping down people’s throats only pushes us farther away because we won’t give our opinions in fear of “upsetting” the masses.

      this is a legit real issue.
      even lesbians are chasing straight vixens because they’re over it too.

      1. J I am loving this new you LoL, I can remember when you would not challenge some of these opinions, a lot of things are said on here that makes my blood boil at times but I keep my mouth shut, because it is not my Blog or my place but I get so sick of these dudes who think you are a self hating homo because you dont want to go along with their agenda. I see ya though with that no more fukks to give attitude in 2017 🙂

        1. ^it came with growth and all the shit i through this last year!

          im thankful for all that has happened because im feeling more stronger now.
          thank you for the compliment because you see im not trying to be an asshole.

  14. Living in Atlanta was a wake up call for me. I dated a guy who I thought was going to be a keeper, his dad used to play in the NFL. I met him at a brunch and he seemed really nice really attractive guy and we hit it off immediately. So I stuck around after the brunch and we talked and everything. then someone just walked in the house I said someone just walked through your door and he said oh that’s just my roommate five minutes later they were arguing the next thing I know DeKalb County was over there. This guy really had hidden anger issues they came out later. I Didn’t want to be a homewrecker since I just met this guy but he promised that they had been having problems before he met me. They broke up and we dated but he didn’t work anywhere. He had a nice home which was rented, wound up getting evicted. I took the whole day off from work to help him move, I was pissed because I had to drive from out of town it took us all day we finally finished about 11 p.m. that night. I think the last straw was when we went to a card party which I did know anyone there he left me there to go do drugs with his friends, and that’s when I decided to cut things off with him. He threatened to tell my family about me but I didn’t care, I said they’ll love me anyway. Now I think I’ve become so cold and callous about relationships and trusting guys. I have a young nephew who is wild and way out there, messy, roguish, living in Atlanta, I tried to tell him, he headed down the wrong path, I don’t want anything to happen to him.

    1. ^wow this is deep af!
      ima send my prayers to your cousin.
      i hope he can find the right path.

      why does atl seem like people go down there and go wild?

  15. OMG yasss we are all on the same page with this. Gosh I sometimes even feel bad for not having more gay make friends but here in RVA almost all the gays are queens times ten. I love them, all of them but I just don’t fit in with them. IT makes me sad but I’m also glad I don’t fit in I honestly don’t see myself doing things the way they do. And about the wanting of a more masculine man. I’m at the point in my life where I’m content with being single forever because I feel hopeless that I’ll never truly find what it is my heart desires about a man. I find myself liking out guys that are a bit flamboyant but they seem to be liking over 100 different guys themselves. Gosh there’s so much to be said about this subject. You should host a sit down special like TRL use to do and call people out of the audience to speak.

  16. Another thing. I have straight male friends but I play them at a distance as well as keeping only a certain number of straight male friends cause it always seems for me personally that I fall eventually because I often see in them what I want from a gay male but I never get. I always end up getting rejected of course. There have been times the fish has took the bait but then backed out of what we had out of fear of being caught so I end up heartbroken while they end up knocking some vixen up multiple times. My only close friends are vixens of course who honestly irritate me so often I hang by myself and just do me in general. Life is tough as a gay male I’ll never understand why people believe this is a choice.

  17. I only been out for a year but I’ve learned a lot in that short amount of time and honestly the fact I probably won’t have many or any gay friends at all in settling in. I agree wit most of the comments. It’s a shame dudes either are out yet over the top and annoying or DL/discreet so they’re more chill but closet cases. Issa lose lose situation sometimes smh. It really sucks because my straight guy friends are settling down so I only get to hang wit the couple home girls I have but I still would like some male company sometimes. And of course sex fucks everything up lol.
    I been FWB wit this masc “discreet” guy for nearly a year and as many time as he said we could do other shit together besides sex we still end up playing house. One thing I also realized is as much as I like dealing wit discreet dudes in general because I’m low key myself they often give long handled spoon treatment and very hot/cold.

    1. @Hugo…know your worth man.

      If dude tells you that you’re going to do something, then let him know you want to do it.

      Let him know that you don’t have to be out and about holding hands and carrying on with PDA (which I find annoying) but sitting in the house all the time is getting old. Go to a park, boardwalk, beach, movie, restaurant, SOMETHING! But don’t let him keep you in the crib, man. That’s whack. If he’s not cool with it, then move on. He’s only going to do what you allow him to do, yo.

      Communication is key in any relationship, open or discreet. If he’s not cool with what you want to do, and again it doesn’t have to be “romantic” shyt, find you someone that will.

      1. Thanks @Christian. I needed thus dossle of truth. It’s a process and I’m learning to know wat I can and can’t put up with. Its funny cuz I really don’t wanna do anything romantic because I don’t see dude as boyfriend material. And communication is definitely key, honestly I’m probably more afraid of facing da fact he jus don’t ever wanna do these things and getting egg on my face. It sucks cuz the sex is good and its hard to find a consistent source of peen in these parts.

  18. LMAO @ “its hard to find a consistent source of peen in these parts.”

    I understand. Just don’t let him be the one controlling what ya do. You can go out and do different things, just hanging out. Nothing more, nothing less. I try to hang out with my friends (those I call friends) as much as I can, but when we do hang out, we go places where we can focus on one another and have some good conversations. Just two guys hanging out having fun.

    Even if it’s someone I’m interested in I take them to a place I like, to gauge their reaction and to see if I have their attention. Some great conversations have been had walking down the street, in the park, on the boardwalk, etc.

    I’m not saying run him off. LOL Just try to get him to hang with you outside of the house. Let your voice be heard in this relationship/friendship.

  19. Well I don’t have any gay friends. I have one friend who doesn’t label himself, but only sleeps with men on the dl.

    Me personally I look on instagram and I yearn for gay friends that’s masculine like me. I want that support system of having a crew that all experience the same thing.

    I never been in a gay relationship, but when I do I would like to be out with it and not discreet. Its 2017 nobody really gives a fuck anymore.

    I want people to know who my significant other is, I don’t want to be the uncle in his 40’s (in my 20’s now) that everybody knows is gay but keeps his love life hidden.

    I kind of feel sad for people who is discreet, like straight people aren’t discreet unless they’re creeping.

    Good luck to everyone who want discreet relationships, Yall can be that one who invites his roommate to thanksgiving….I honestly don’t want that.

    1. “Its 2017 nobody really gives a fuck anymore.” Sadly, that ain’t true. If they didn’t, there would be a lot more gay people coming out of the closet.

  20. EVERYTHING YOU SAID IN THIS ARTICLE! I esp dont like the spiteful one that act like they can retaliate again people like a evil bitch ass female.

  21. This is ridiculous and the amount of self-loathing is disturbing. More disturbing is the response many have been given in the comments who don’t agree with the character assassination of “out” gay men.

    It being your experience or your perspective doesn’t make it right or legitimate. You can be loud, have a number of people agree with you and still be wrong AF. Look at Donald Trump.

  22. Let me put something to rest here: just because you don’t know someone’s sexuality or sexual business doesn’t mean they’re not out; it means that it’s none of your business. That doesn’t make them DL and it doesn’t make them discreet.

    Many of the men you all call yourselves lusting over on IG are actually out gay men in their social circles. They don’t live their lives any differently than anyone else.

    The men many of you are identifying with repulsion as “out gay men” are actually men that happen to be gay that display a particular set of behaviors. It has nothing to do with being “out”.

  23. Interesting comments..I do think it’s hard to establish genuine friendships with black gay men. But I think one problem is that a majority of dudes base their friendships on LOOKS.

    How someone dresses, their body type, masculine, feminine – all these superficial qualities determine whether they’ll befriend someone. It’s fine to pursue friendship based on whatever criteria you want, but when so many decry the difficulty of making friends, I wonder if they’re going about it the right way.

    I live in Dallas and it’s cartoonish how shallow these dudes are. I’m lucky that I’ve been able to create platonic friendships with great guys, but it wasn’t easy lol. The key for me was focusing solely on the personality and opening up myself to someone that maybe I wouldn’t normally expect to converse with.

  24. First I want to say, this post is a great conversation starter. So many different perspectives.

    I am reading a lot of comments conflating being out with being fem. A few people have said that they gymed up to be more “straight” acting (I hate that term… It’s like saying “black” acting) but people can be messy whether they are fem or masculine. I think out fem guys are on the front lines in terms of exposure. They can’t hide and i think being catty and wit has become a defense mechanism for many. I wonder if there is some bitterness from those that can’t hide (pass) towards those that can. Ex: when Lena horn was in her youth she was marketed at Latina or Egyptian but not black. Other black actors were pissed and made it known, outing her, that she was not “exotic” she was one of them.

    I also think that our culture has encouraged this behavior. You have the trope of the “gay best friend” who will read you down, but ultimately isn’t a threat to anyone, not the girl who is the friend or guys that might be interested in the girl.

    I wonder if the traits of being shady and mean aren’t an out gay thing but rather an out gay guy who is part of the scene. I am out and witty but i am not a nasty person. But I was raised in a very strict religious household. Respect was crazy important.

    Maybe region or career fields play a part. Perhaps big city or careers attract more Catty gay men.

    Clearly this isn’t just a gay problem of attacking and bringing each other down, women are known for that. It’s very unfortunate that the fay community doesn’t feel like one.

    People can live the lives they want out, discreet, dl. My only question is how do we change the situation? How does the gay community become a community instead of tearing each other apart.

    1. “How does the gay community become a community instead of tearing each other apart.”

      Putting ourselves first and stop depending on other institutions to have our best interests.

      This isn’t everyone, but I find that we (the black gay demographic) works so hard to protect the interest of others, while never holding them accountable to consider our concerns or even respect us. We constantly shrug off anti-gay rhetoric and when someone calls it out for what it really is, he/she is gaslighted with the ‘black first’ trope.

      Low and behold, a big inferiority complex that plagues the community.

    2. @Mansur…I agree with you that the cattiness/nastiness may be a defense mechanism. But some take it to extremes, and it’s like they seem to attract the same types of people into their circle, but it never lasts because they soon turn on one another.

      Is it an insecurity type thing? Is it because they may have been abused? Or do some just enjoy being nasty/petty? At some point when do they grow up and leave that behavior behind or realize that they’re acting like a societal stereotype?

      Perhaps they need to surround themselves with polar opposites rather than similar types to get an understanding of their behavior?

  25. If you’ll notice in the original post, Jamari didn’t really equate out men with being all feminine. Some of you all projected that.

    Plenty of these butch queens on on Monday-Thursday ain’t shit either.

    All I know is realistically a lot of these dudes won’t have kids, won’t find “the one”, and a good portion are not close with their families. Truth hurts and I’m not in the business or selling fairytales🤷🏾‍♂️.

    Are you really in a position to be turning possible lifelong friendships down?

    All I see is a lot of defensiveness but no one addressing the issue of why sgl men are this way?

    I’d take a wild guess it’s because a lot of you operate under the same status quo. Choosing friends based on looks, saying “I have enough friends, I just need some dick tonight.”, etc.

    1. I think a good chunk of it has to do with being socially maladjusted due to being outcast in their youth.

      Though I see where you are coming from, I think beggars can be chooser to some extent. Never ever settle for the sake of not being alone. Just have the right mindset the cultivate relationships with other. Many people are not being honest about what they want from another person. That’s a big issue that resonates far beyond the sgl community.

      1. Something about your comment really triggered me and I can’t put my finger on it.

        I’ll just say my heterosexual friends give me hope. When I go to weddings and see people genuinely into each other without regard for skin tone, body type, and material shit talking about variety of topics that don’t include sex I feel like I’m around real people.

        You all can continue choosing your friends based on who you want to fuck or using a paper bag. Life is always the great equalizer.

        If some feel like the gay scene and being around all gay people is healthy for them great.

        It’s usually a circle of hell for me.

  26. I find it funny that a place labeled the foxhole is inherently disgusted with flamboyancy. Aren’t there several articles posted on this website with the same amount sass as any other gay man on the street? All this talk about catty this, catty that. It’s ridiculous. Straight men can be just as catty, if not even more. You see them boys on the corner? They talk shit almost as much as a female could. Especially in this social media age. I also find this correlates to being in the closet. The need to be seen as “straight-acting” and “discreet” forces a man to mimic archetypes that date back to the 50s and 60s when married men/downlow men would meet in bathhouses, public rest stops, and parks. The argument kinda boils down to the equivalent of “Im not like those other bottoms” or “Im not like those other girls”. Kinda reminds me of when a black man gets with a white woman but STILL goes out of his way to put black women down. If you want to be “discreet”, closeted, or blanketed, do you 100% but don’t claw at the out gays.

  27. Funny enough, some of these comments proved Jamari’s point of how ridiculous gay men can be. I appreciate this post because it really shows examples in the comments of why a lot of gays stay to themselves. Well done.

  28. I was reluctant to post a comment on this topic because I am not a gay man and obviously I can’t understand what that entails.But I can’t help but notice many of these comments are similar to comments I have heard from blacks who ONLY date non Blacks.According to them blacks have attitudes,are angry,are rachet,can’t be faithful,etc.They generalize 30 million people based on the experiences they have had with a few dozen or even a few hundred.

    It’s so difficult finding a person who you connect with,who “gets you” so my philosophy is to expand not limit your options.

    1. Yeah I see a lot of gaslighting with people who don’t agree with the article. The issue isn’t really with the preference rather than the generalizations made to support that preference.

  29. You touch on so much in this post. I just gotta say that many out dudes behave in the negative ways you describe because it’s how they’ve become habituated to reacting to how badly they’ve treated in the past. We’ve all got our traumas and can only do the best with the tools we have…. Change is a process which takes a determination to become self-aware and to practice new behaviours. The world needs more compassion.

If you wouldn't say it on live TV with all your family and friends watching, without getting canceled or locked up, don't say it on here. Stay on topic, no SPAM, and keep it respectful. Thanks!

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