CASTING: A FOX TO BUMP BOOTY BUTT CHEEKS WITH (MUST HAVE FAT ASS)

To make a successful television show,
there are an array of characters.
You have your leads, your supporting, the love interest, and the bad guy.
They all need to have certain amount of chemistry in order to fully sell it.
The script also has to be perfect,
and there needs to be a point as to why we will keep on tuning in.

In this reality show of a lifestyle we live,
there are all characters who play a vital role with each other.
There are Foxes, Wolves, Hybrids, Jackals, and Hyenas.
Some of us have great chemistry that helps us ultimately get locked down for another season.
Others, however, are worth just a quick guest role.
It seems when it comes to looking for love as a Fox, everyone else is pairing off with their same roles.
Or, pairing off with roles that should not be assigned to them in the first place.

Has the script been re-written?
Have Wolves started tuning into other Wolves?
Why are Wolves secretly watching Jackals and Hyenas?
And, is the love life of a Fox just simply just being cancelled all together?
I started to wonder…

When has the role of “Fox” not been renewed?

“I always figured frottage amongst wolves was more of a “sexual compromise” between the two. Since there is a very prominent push against anything remotely feminine in the black gay community, more wolves are starting to date each other now. So there’s a lot of rubbing and humping and mutual masturbation going on.” – UrSoVain, Carmelo Anthony Looks Bored With “The Chain On His Balls”

Have us Foxes lost our Wolves to other Wolves?
It is starting to seem that way.
In the show, “What Wolves Really Want“,
they are mighty picky as to what they really want.
Foxes (and Vixens) use to think because they have a HOLE,
we were really in charge.
Yeah, not so much.
It seems more Wolves are getting their asses eaten and having a dick rubbed between them to get off.
I always hear Wolves talking about “NO ONE IS GETTING THIS ASS“.
Yet, they seem to always attract themselves to each other.
Since the masculine Foxes are hidden,
the feminine Foxes are out,
they are pretty much over all the guessing games.
Vain hit the nail on the end when he said that comment.
Wolves are looking for their “masculine fantasy“,
just as much as we are.

In the Fox hit show,
Single Fox In the City“,
it seems that the masculine Wolves are hidden.
We find ourselves attracted to STRAIGHT Wolves because we desperately want that.
When you look at playback from Miami Sizzle and Atlanta events,
you see all these masculine characters.
You just come to realize they are Foxes and Hybrids.
If Wolves are there,
they probably fucked everyone.
As much as Hybrids are the perfect replacement,
after a while,
their inner Fox comes out and realizes, “I’m bored“.

In the Jackals and Hyenas show,
Aw, Fuck It“,
it seems that everyone is just a conquest.
There is no roles or characters.
Everyone is the enemy in their eyes.
They are simply just one step away from being cancelled,
so they do whatever it takes to make their cameo talked about.
They make the Foxes talk because they get all the good Wolves.
They make the Wolves talk because secretly, they want to fuck.

I started to wonder about your role within the Jungle of Lifestyle.
Is being a Fox enough?
Or, do you have to become a” show” Hybrid to be taken seriously?
Are Jackals and Hyenas really winning?
Now that I have been introduced to frottage,
are Foxes really being replaced with a Wolf that has no problem with being dry humped?
It is all so confusing?!
Could I get with a pure Fox and bump anal cavities with?
Yeah, I just don’t see it.
Can a Fox just meet a real Wolf and DVR all the good times?

Should we just start tuning into a show called “Settling
or ….

?

Author: jamari fox

the fox invited to the blogging table.

92 thoughts on “CASTING: A FOX TO BUMP BOOTY BUTT CHEEKS WITH (MUST HAVE FAT ASS)

  1. I don’t really know if its 100% true but my comment in the other thread spoke to my overall experience with couples I’ve seen out and about. There’s lots of Top/Vers Top and Top/Top relationships where they go on social media looking for a bottom whos interested in a 3-sum with the two of them which i assume is to sort of scratch that itch. I assume they date each other to get the image that they look for in a partner and compromise of the sex thing. Do Top.Bottom relationships occur? Absolutely. But there is still a push towards wanting the image. I’ve met plenty of wolves who will turn down someone who is sexually compatible simply because they do not look like “wolves” (i.e. masculine/straight acting/ DL thugs/ Muscular”) types. There’s a prominent FB celeb wolf who was pretty popular in ATL who put up this status on FB that illustrates my point:
    http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8254/screenshot20120604at104w.png

    1. They are the SAME type of dudes who have major issues. They exterior is on point but their mind is FUCKED up and their hearts are cold. Been there, done him.

    2. The dude on that site has issues. WTF? I think it’s silly for a muscular dude to want a another muscular dude. I’m sorry. It just wouldn’t feel right. If I was a buff dude, I would want a dude smaller than me. I like being the dominant one.

      1. You may think its silly but its actually a preference for a lot of wolves/ hybrids. You’ll see plenty of couples who look similar to each other in terms of build as opossed to polar opposites. The same image being sold to us about the ideal man is being sold to them as well. We’d like to think heteronormative ideals of what couples should look like are whats going on but upon closer inspection it isnt always whats going on. His qoute of essentially giving what you want to get it is the main reason we’re all in gyms and on diet programs.

        1. ^my issue is how easy it was for him to say what he wanted….
          …. And got 111 likes.

          I say it and people look at me like I got 28 heads and they all breathing fire.

    3. Really, what is the issue with what he said?
      “Give what you want,” albeit a little grammatically inept, isn’t much different than, “Be the change you want to see,” or “You are what you attract.”
      Isn’t that what we constantly preach on here? To meet a wolf that’s able to return at least half of what we give?

      There was this video posted on Youtube about a year ago. It was a video done in the form of a poem with interviews of openly gay (mostly feminine) men and were asked, first, to describe the man they wanted to love/date. Many of the men described a man that looked and behaved nothing like them. They also tended to describe the same type of man: masculine, muscles, strong, etc.

      Then they were asked if they would date themselves.
      Many of them responded that they wouldn’t. If I remember right, only one out of the seven-eight men interviewed said that he would.

      That is a problem.

  2. I think we as gay/bi men, try so hard to be accepted that we have lost a lot of what makes us unique. Back in the old days you KNEW who was the fox and who was the wolf but you didn’t talk about ‘gay’ stuff in public. Now with the world being more accepting, we over anaylize every damn thing. Men of color struggle with accepting a dude for who he is. He has this ideal dude in his head as to what he wants but won’t accept the next dude because of trival shit (plucked eyebrows, a lil fem, pink shirts, etc.)…ANYTHING that will make him insecure about himself. I get that you don’t want to bring any negative attention but a lot of us are alone (and bitter) because we’re chasing dreams that turn into nightmares.

    Aside from that. There is no black and white when it comes to sexuality. Some people can’t believe that sexual acts like frottage exist. Not every man is into anal sex. Not every man is in to giving head. They do exist. If I saw two ‘wolves’ together, it wouldn’t surprise me. The same with two foxes. It turns me on actually. I always say whatever makes you cum is all right with me (aside from rape, molestation, goat fucking..etc.)

    Long story short, I wish we could just be ourselves and let the universe bless us with the RIGHT man for us. Open our minds more and embrace what makes us unique.

    Just my opinion…

  3. I want what I want and I won’t settle for no less. I want foxes and hybrids and I’m not the only wolf who does. So y’all keep doing what your doing, you guys are not losing to other wolves, get that out of your heads now. Jackals and Hyenas are not winning, they are just easier to get sex from, and people love sex. When it’s time to cuff, they will always miss out because they aren’t worth more than a fuck.*sticks out tongue at any jackals or hyenas that might be reading.* To me, foxes and hybrids is where it’s at for me. I aint gonna lie, I do like other wolves, but that’s because most men who claim to be wolves aren’t, so I sniff around their holes and see what I can find. Most men in this life are hybrids, just like most of our population is made of bisexual people.

    S/N: Young Black Wolf would be an example of a wolf that’s not really wolf. That’s why I’ve been sniffing around his hole. He knows what’s up. LMAO…j/k.

    1. The Man :
      S/N: Young Black Wolf would be an example of a wolf that’s not really wolf. That’s why I’ve been sniffing around his hole. He knows what’s up. LMAO…j/k.

      ^^^ I’ll get you my pretty…and your little dog too!

  4. theluckeystar :
    Men of color struggle with accepting a dude for who he is. He has this ideal dude in his head as to what he wants but won’t accept the next dude because of trival shit (plucked eyebrows, a lil fem, pink shirts, etc.)

    Luckey you hit the nail on the head with just these few sentences and it is so true we all have this image of what our man is supposed to be and if the man is not like that we shut him down not even considering that he is perfect for us just the way he is but we are all so caught up in image and how manly he is supposed to be and look and we miss out on perfectly good healthy relationships because of our own image of what we think he should be like

    1. ^isn’t it different that Wolves are getting the Foxes they want,
      But Foxes and Hybrids are not getting the Wolf they want?
      Would anyone be complaining if they got the prototype of what they wanted?

      1. It’s a mixture of both. Not everyone it’s getting the one they want. Some have just been fortunate to find someone. Take an inventory of your regular posters. You will find the various “roles” and there are more of us who are without a partner than there are with one.

      2. Jamari thats also a good statement you just brought up cause sometimes the wolfs do get the type of fox they want but the fox gets the shorter end of the stick because their wolf is not exactly their prototype of what they want there wolf to be but here is what a fox must do we must look at what the most important thing we want in a wolf and if we find a wolf who has these qualities we want but a few things that may not have been in the prototype of the wolf we created in our minds and fantasy will we still be more open to this wolf or will we bypass him because he is not exactly our fantasy. What some people don’t realize is when you are fantasizing about the type of person you want to be with if you play to much into that fantasy it will most surely have you very lonely cause no one will live up to that perfect fantasy that we all make up in our heads.

  5. I am hoping that we all have some standards. However, the higher your standards, the less chance you will find someone who meets all of them.

    Perhaps some are lowering their requirements or taking who they can get, and throwing their standards out of the window. What would you do if you’ve yearned for love for so long, and it seemed that you may never have it? You just may end up dating someone who shares the same role if you are striking out elsewhere.

    Personally, it’s not all about penetration for me. So if I am compatible with a top, who happens to enjoy providing oral stimulation, then count me in.

  6. There’s a problem with the psychology of some of you all in regards to the topics of sexuality, femininity, masculinity, and expectation.

    For one, there is this subconscious equation of foxhood with femininity. A lot of you seem to want to apply heterosexual standards to homosexual relationships and that’s just a bit unrealistic to do. I noticed when speaking in regards to foxes, there is this underlying assumption of who they are, how they look, and how they behave. The same with wolves. There are plenty foxes out here who are muscular and masculine, so the issue isn’t that the role of the fox has been replaced, but that you all don’t agree with the new script.

    For two, I’m noticing a selfishness among some of you. You all have this ideal wolf that you want and selfishly believe the desire is the property of the more submissive, feminine fox. But at the end of the day, we’re all men, so the idea that a wolf might want a fox or hybrid that looks like him shouldn’t come as a surprise. The problem isn’t that there are a lack of available wolves, but that the wolves available don’t fit this unrealistic standard you all have set for your potential mate. God forbid your soulmate be a more feminine wolf with no tattoos and no muscles. It would completely destroy the damsel in distress fairytale many of you have created and set as an expectation.

    What exactly is the issue with wanting a mate who, in some respects, resembles you? Why is that condemned? It’s okay to hold an expectation of “upgrading” in terms of career and education, but not in looks?

    I think the biggest issue is the lack of self-love and self-worth among some commentators. You condemn the idea of someone’s preference being something you’re not because subconsciously, you don’t believe you’re good enough yourself.

    Just as there are men out here that want a more masculine and muscular fox/hybrid, there are just as many who don’t. As a hybrid who is masculine and who is athletically muscular, I’ve been in a situation in which I was told I wasn’t desirable because I was those things and couldn’t (and wouldn’t) change them. So, it goes both ways. Clearly, even here on this website, we’ve had discussions regarding wolves out here who prefer the more overtly feminine/flamboyant gay men. So, it’s really not even a masculine, feminine, fox, hybrid, wolf issue. It’s a preference issue. And the wolves out here caught up in this idea of “physical perfection” aren’t all worth the time anyway.

    Start believing that you’re worth it.
    That shit is half the battle.

  7. #whoisjamarifox :
    ^my issue is how easy it was for him to say what he wanted….
    …. And got 111 likes.
    I say it and people look at me like I got 28 heads and they all breathing fire.

    Now lets discuss how many of those likes are from people who only liked the statement because they’re insecure themselves and are hoping to get noticed by the man posting it.

    1. ^exactly.
      he turned me ALL the way off.
      Judging from the comments I read in the little clip,
      I just saw dripping insecurity from Foxes who are screaming “pick me! no me!”

  8. I have no doubt that a lot of the people who “liked” his status did so to get his attention. But I still feel as though the mentality exists for the large part of the community. My initial post was more so a comment on how many of us, wolves included, will go for the “image” more so than whats “compatible.” We can go on and on about self-love and acceptance and so on because those are typically where topics like this go. Its more so about how important the image of the ideal man is desired for all side of the spectrum for the vast majority of those of us in this community.

    So for you Random, as you describe yourself as “a hybrid who is masculine and who is athletically muscular”, you represent part of the ideal mate, especially for Wolves. Its kind of like a pretty, light skin girl with a fat-ass and long hair saying “it isnt about whats on the outside, its about whats on the inside. Sure, there may be a few instances where you have been turned down but I’d venture to guess that it doesn’t represent the bulk of your experience.

    There isn’t anything wrong with having a preference. I’m not arguing that there is. What I’m saying is there is a definite ideal that is out there and unlike the heteros this ideal is much more concrete and many do not settle. Regardless of how much one loves and accepts themselves, theres is still the outside factor of culture and what is deemed as desirable. I feel as though with our community, standards are much more rigid and that leaves us basically in a position to decided whether or not we are going to go along with it or not.

    1. People are just shallow. I aint gonna lie, the first thing I notice about a dude is his looks, I can’t help it, I’m human. Looks first, compatibility second. I have to be attracted to you in order to kick it. I’m attracted to most men anyway so I’m not really shallow and judgemental as most are. It all depends what a person is looking for though. If a person is looking for physical compatibility, personality doesn’t play a part in the process, it’s all about the looks. If they are looking for mental compatibility, looks shouldn’t matter, the focus would be on the chemisty between the two people and what they are looking for. Is that wrong though? Should we really put mental compatability first rather than physical compatibility? Both of those are very important.

    2. I can agree that the idea of the “ideal man” is something that is most commonly held in high esteem. That said, I think what is and isn’t ideal is relative and although we may have certain commonalities in our preference, there are just as many variations.

      But I don’t think that’s the most important issue. The big issue, to me, is why that ideal man is nothing like those that desire him and why there is such condemnation among those not meeting that standard against those that do. It almost seems as if it stems from a place of deep seeded insecurity.

      I’m single and have been for a very long time now. So while I may be, in some aspects, what’s considered ideal or favorable, our experiences really aren’t that much different. At the end of the day, we’re both in the same boat. Single and looking.

      1. So Random, Is the issue with you being single have to do with you not finding someone who meets your standards? Or do the men you date feel as though you are not good enough to settle down with?

  9. What’s it all for though? I mean we have to have perfect bodies, dress to impress, fuck like a porn star, and be masculine or fem enough (depending on the dude). Let’s say you find someone that meets all your standards, even the ridiculous ones. Whats the end result?

    Are you going to just kick it together until you’re old and wrinkled? Will your relationship always be kind of secret? Will you meet his parents? Will you get married if/when gay marriage is legalized. Guys tend to get quiet when asked this because they’ve made so much of their lives about the pursuit of perfection within themselves for the perfect guy.

    I mean if a relationship isn’t progressing towards something it can’t be a fruitful one.

    I had to ask myself these questions and I can honestly say I don’t seek male companionship as fervently as I once did. The whole concept is too backwards and most of us have surrendered to it. Instead of loving someone for who I am its about loving someone for what they can do for you (status, trophy) and what they do to you (sex game).

    No wonder we have all these dudes out here that can go from trade to fem in a flash. They don’t know what the fuck to be.

    1. I can agree with that in some respects. We as a community focus a lot more on the pursuit and much less on the actual investment. We struggle to maintain long-term, fruitful relationships because we have no idea how to do it. We’re taught all the things we need to know in order to get a man, but have no idea how to translate that into a successful relationship.

      1. I totally disagree. We arent taught anything about how to get or keep a man. We go by what we think theyre suppose to want as opposed to what they actually do. Most of us can barely get a guy to call us consistently let alone go out on a date. There are lots of emotionally unavailable men out there who want nothing more than something casual and I personally believe they make up the vast majority of what is out there.

  10. Jamari you opened up a can of worms with this topic…I am literally refreshing and taking notes..lol

    A lot of REAL TALK!

    I guess I am cut from a different cloth. Sure I have my personal preference but I have dated all types of men. Maybe it was because I knew what it felt like to be rejected or feel unwanted but I just learn to get to know people and judge them for their heart. I dated the pretty boys and some were cool peoples but most were SO ugly on the inside and SO insecure. I’ve dated fem boys, white boys, you name it, I pretty much gave it a shot. I learn so much about myself and I can honestly say that I am much more of a well rounded person.

    I love a sexy man with BODY but I wouldn’t care if you had a gut…

    I love a confident man. Period.

  11. I say find someone who you find attractive and is compatible with you. To me Looks are important but not more than someone who is compatible with my personality. I have no problem with preference like who you like but dont knock someone elses preference.The facebook dude had a right to state what his preference which is muscular bottoms and hybrids. I dont see nothing wrong with that, BUT I do think he said a bit much. All he had to say was looking for muscular bottoms, or versa or whatever. That statement he made did rub me wrong a lil bit. With that being said I think foxes are going to continue to have it harder in love because theres alot of us. So you know the wolves picking through us like a bag of m&ms. Hybrids may have it a lil easier because they can either bottom or top. My problem is that im running into hybrids and wolves but all theyre about is sex. Can i meet an wolf whom I find attractive who is compatible with my personality, who is not just trying to get a nut?

  12. I think a lot of these STAR Wolves get caught up in the hype. I have even fallen victim to it. After transforming myself into Mr. Muscle, from a couch potato I find myself getting alot of attention from other muscular dudes and I cant front that can blow up even the most humble head. I think other muscular dudes are attracted to body because you spend alot of time in the gym seeing other good bodies and it warps your perception. I find myself now looking at someone body before I get to know anything else about them now and even though its shallow, I am being honest. We as gay men put so much emphasis on appearance that I am sure as many other gay men, I have missed out on some good dudes. My social life has went from zero to sixty, but I realize that many of us are flawed and have a myriad of issues no matter how attractive and great the body. I find myself a little more tolerant of dudes who are attractive with great bodies, more so than average dudes.

    One of the main homeboys I hang with is a popular wolf and he loves foxes; though he will never admit it, he is unhappy because he just goes from foxhole to foxhole never finding what he wants. I know its a shortage of wolves because I am literally amazed what these foxes will do for him and how he can treat them like shit and they come back every time and ask for even more. I mean straight disrespect, but at the end of the day, he still has not found what he wants. It was one fox who actually stood up to his antics and that’s the one he respects and wants, but that fox dumped him and he still will move mountains if that one was to call, its so funny seeing him comparing all the foxes he messes with to this one and saying how he could care less about him, but is always bringing him up to me in some form or fashion.

    Trying to find a compatible match in the gay dating world has prove to be anything but successful and easy, so I think after a while we just settle until something else catches our eye and we are back to playing the same old games. As the old Whitney Houston/Deborah Cox collaboration said–“Same Script Different Cast”

    1. It sounds like your friend is the typical wolf. I completely understand why foxes stick around despite his antics. Demand is high and supply is very low. So the question becomes is the solution to stand up and say ‘we’re not gunna take it’ in hopes that they realize we’re a cut from the rest? From my experience that hasnt worked lol.

      But I think you made a very important point. I think everyone feels as though since we all come with so much baggage we’d much rather put up with it from our ideal than someone who is not so good looking. Hence there is such a large push towards trying yo obtain him.

    2. You are so deep Tajan. I bet you’re great to talk in person.

      It sounds like your homeboy really wants that dude. I think it’s sweet when a wolf really has true feelings for a fox.

  13. UrSoVain :
    So Random, Is the issue with you being single have to do with you not finding someone who meets your standards? Or do the men you date feel as though you are not good enough to settle down with?

    A number of things, honestly.
    Bad timing.
    Going in different directions professionally.
    Distance.
    And the fact that a lot of men don’t know how to commit or be in a relationship with a man that is “ideal” (despite how I may or may not seem here on this site, I am a really really great boyfriend).

    1. You sooooo knew this question was coming, especially from me being essentially your foil so to speak.

      What makes you a really really great boyfriend?

    2. I want to know the answer to this question too. What makes you a great boyfriend besides you’re smarts? Have dudes told you that you’re a great boyfriend?

      1. Yes. Not even on some inflated ego type shit, but I’ve been told that countless times. I’m never the one to mess up in the relationship. Any break up or problem I’ve ever had dealing with a guy has never been as the result of something I’ve done.

        For me, when it comes to a relationship, it’s about making each other better. The ultimate goal in every relationship is making each other happy and I think that’s something some people lose sight of. However for me, it’s something I pay attention to.

        I’m the type to do random romantic shit just because. Cook breakfast in the morning and serve it to you in bed, Surprise you at work with flowers. Bring in money and make sure bills are paid. And fuck your brains out before the night’s over.

        I believe in communication. I believe in honesty. I believe in loyalty. All of that is important in a relationship.

        Yeah, I might get attention when I go out. I might get hit on by people. But at the end of the day, I know what I have back home and that’s the one I’m focused on giving my all to.

  14. UrSoVain :
    I totally disagree. We arent taught anything about how to get or keep a man. We go by what we think theyre suppose to want as opposed to what they actually do. Most of us can barely get a guy to call us consistently let alone go out on a date. There are lots of emotionally unavailable men out there who want nothing more than something casual and I personally believe they make up the vast majority of what is out there.

    Point taken. I should have clarified.

  15. I must say watching Random and Vain debate does something to me…kind of stimulating like watching two thick Brazilian bitches wrestle in jello. Lol

  16. The fuck? I am so confused at these labels! Jackal? Hyena? lol. So much….conformity. Is it really that serious. We just can’t find guys who we are individually attractive without all the frills and thrills. These quota systems are killing me. Shit I am attracted to so many different things that i can’t; stick to one side of any spectrum. From femininity to masculinity, to all shades of colors and races, body types and so forth and so on. Finding an attractive guy is the least of my worries, to me its really too damn many! lol. My thing is personality, and finding the right fit for me because i am complicated and i need a guy whose own complications can combine with mines and together our love will be pure, passionate, purposeful. But, good luck with all that gay social caste systems and what not.

  17. The truth is in the gay lifestyle bottoms are LOSING! Badly too You know how many times I’ve had other tops HIT me up saying damn id suck ur dick, i want you to fuck me etc. One of them was this a hood nigga who had the tear tats and all. He had a baby mama and when we hung out he was damnnn good at getting chicks, he was a top and other bottoms died to get with him, YET this dude was too eager to suck dick.. pretty much he’s the IDEAL for a LOT of people (i think bottoms just settle for ANYTHING that ACTS masc) yet he goes for HARDER looking THUG dudes..The cycle goes on, this one Vers top who strips and i were smoking and i tell him to get a dude online dtf. when he was scrolling through online dudes he just zipped past the bottoms each time saying nah i had this one or that one…im like smh these bottoms just sleep with everything in the empty hopes of getting with him. the way to a man is NOT his dick LEARN!

    1. I knew someone like this as well (your first scenario). Seemingly, many bottom’s physical ideal aside from his bad teeth. Muscles, hood, tattoos everywhere. He claimed to be a top and would say he wouldn’t deal with strict tops. What he didn’t realize was that alone made him himself more of a verse bottom/bottom than top.

      I didn’t realize that myself until I began finding out all of the men that had topped him or he had tried to get top him. He’s really a bottom, but because of the expectation others have for someone that looks like him (and the expectation he has for himself), he says he’s a top.

      1. The thing is if bottoms STOP creating these Illusions of what guys are and what guys are not Before my VERY own eyes this vers (vers bottom if anything, who of course put his position as “top” – i love messing wit those ones) i had just finished fucking got a text which he grunted at i asked him whats up he says this bottom texting him is getting annoying, he shows me the text and what i read from the bottom is “yeah you can do whatever you want to me, you have swag and i normally dont even talk to anybody, you’re a true top” i almost busted out laughing seeing that this “vers” reply to the bottom had all been “hood” responses – like “Nah yo” Aint this or that.. and he kept to the top “movie character”

        when bottoms stop seeing themselves a women with men rather as MEN with MEN and that a TOP WILLLL give up that ass under the RIGHT situations – someone more masculine than he is (or even not), maybe hornyness, level of comfort, trust, right dick size etc depends on the inidividual . I’ve replied a post like this once online and the bottoms went into a frenzy on how they wouldn’t let nor do they like a guy who’s “been fucked before”, even if it’s “once” and of course it’s been always with their “ex” (i like the ones that use that term) fuck them. When I asked how they know their response was he said he had never and his pics looks like a real top and he acts like one, you’ll know. THAT, was hilarious. Tops DONT want you jigglying your ass all over, or posting your ass all open in public or calling your ass all types of names and asking the “daddy” to hit it good. NO. Thats all a ploy to seem ALL the more masculine to the bottom. Face it, the idea of being attracted to the same sex IS for the MANHOOD.

        1. ^so my question is this,
          why lie?
          i don’t know if i am reading it wrong,
          but it seems these supposed wolves are liars or still trying to find themselves.

          i’m a fox.
          i know what i want.
          and if i get with a wolf, i expect him to know what he wants.
          if i get with a hybrid, i know down the line, he is going to get bored.
          i don’t care if my wolf has been fucked before.
          trivial shit.
          i’m more concerned with him lying and not being upfront.

          which seems to be the common factor in this whole equation of a lifestyle: LIARS.
          if muthafuckas stopped lying all the time, shit would be fucking dandy.
          this isn’t really a GAY issue,
          this is a MAN issue.
          this is the same shit women talk about, sing songs about, cry about… selfish.
          niggas want their cake, ice cream and the whole bakery…

          1. NO. you are alluding GODLIKE status to another COMMON dude he’s a top or any other label and JUST like you are attracted to masculinity he may be. It’s not about lies, heck he may have thought he was total top till he found someone whose swag beats his and then he wants the guy’s dick. to a bottom it is more SOOTHING to believe fantasies come true. That their “top” is a TOTAL mANS MAN who is a COMPLETE Top, loves his dick sucked, eats a** good and loves to beat ass from behind, heck if he likes to suck dick thats a problem with them So, this guy works his way around your derision and feeds the delusion. Not about lies, it’s about unrealistic expectations. Like if you expect Trey Songz, Chris Brown, (CB?!), and all these foxy dudes to be TOUGH macho guys just because they LOOK the part, then…why would he be “up front” with what he wants? To spoil the fantasy? nah every man wants to be king of someone’s fantasy land

  18. But Davon, there are plenty of boys out there who will clain ‘top’ or ‘vers’ in order to get a percieved wolf’s attention. Many of them equate it with masculinity. I remember being rejected by this one wolf who was looking foe ‘Dl Tops who suck dick’ because, for him, your image and masculinity come first. I dont believe the labels people post online anymore. And honestly, anyone who goes on and on about wantig someome who is masculine to be is at the very least a hybrid but more on the fox side of things. Do overall my thing is, foxes who do not LOOK like wolves will get passed over for the ones who do. And if a fox like thay cannot be located, two wolves will get together and try to make it work.

    1. I’ve said this before, some men FAKE their masculinity, They’re really fem., but pretend to be masc just to get niggas. I had a friend like that in highschool. I would look at him sometimes and be like WTF lol, and he’s a ladies man and he comes off a lil thuggish. I could tell he had a thing for me cause it was obvious, but he was too sloppy, and not because of his occasional fem. ways.

      I want a real masc. man, not a fake one just for the streets. I want my man to be a man in the street, and when the doors close.

      1. Your last paragraph is the basis of this entire discussion. A great many of us, foxes, wolves, hybrids, want a man’s man in the heteronormative ideal of what that is. We sing ‘Kumbayah’ about self acceptance and being open but in PRACTICE that is not that case. There is a standard and one must decide whether or not to meet it if they seek to be viewed as ‘of value’ or place others against that standard and view them as such. There is this notion that since we all have penises that we’re pretty much under one umbrela. Yes, we are all MALE but we are not all what the idea of what masculine is as we are part of a different culture, mentality, set of rules, and so forth. So for someone who wants, as you put it, ‘a real masc man’, your most likely to find that in DL wolves, straight men, or really masculine hybrids who often times fake being a wolf for attention.

    2. Why on God’s earth do foxes believe shit like this?
      “And honestly, anyone who goes on and on about wantig someome who is masculine to be is at the very least a hybrid but more on the fox side of things.”

      I’m going to be really honest and say that I feel a lot of you think this way because it makes you feel better about your lack of femininity. Not directing this directly at you Vain, but in general. It’s almost as if you all tell yourself, “I can’t have him because he won’t have me. Must be a bottom.” At any point does it strike any of you that maybe, just maybe, you’re not his type of FOX? That, perhaps, it has nothing to do with him being (or not being) a “real” top.

      It’s almost as if you all use it as a defense mechanism to cope with the possibility you may be undesirable. Crazy,

  19. JAY :
    I must say watching Random and Vain debate does something to me…kind of stimulating like watching two thick Brazilian bitches wrestle in jello. Lol

    Lmfao. What?!

    1. Don’t even try to get into my head. You’ll get lost in there. Lol

      Nice explanation above though. I think I’m more of the “if the other person’s happy, I’m good” type. I’ve always been that way in friendships and relationships…for better or worse.

  20. JAY :
    Don’t even try to get into my head. You’ll get lost in there. Lol
    Nice explanation above though. I think I’m more of the “if the other person’s happy, I’m good” type. I’ve always been that way in friendships and relationships…for better or worse.

    And that’s how a relationship should be, in my opinion. Two people who feel and think that way.

    1. You have to make sure you’re not compromising your own happiness in an effort to keep the other person happy for fear of abandonment though. I have that problem. I have gotten the short end of the stick in every friendship I have ever been a party to. A friend of mine says that’s how its supposed to be. Someone always gives more while the other takes more.

      I only do equal. Someone that will smooth out my rough edges, get me to try new things, and be a rock. If I eat seafood for you, take it as a my commitment. I hate seafood! Lol

      1. Lmao.

        I can agree with all of that and I’ve had to learn the same lesson and go through some of my own heartbreaks. It’s all for the better though. I’m more careful now.

  21. Random :
    Why on God’s earth do foxes believe shit like this?
    “And honestly, anyone who goes on and on about wantig someome who is masculine to be is at the very least a hybrid but more on the fox side of things.”
    I’m going to be really honest and say that I feel a lot of you think this way because it makes you feel better about your lack of femininity. Not directing this directly at you Vain, but in general. It’s almost as if you all tell yourself, “I can’t have him because he won’t have me. Must be a bottom.” At any point does it strike any of you that maybe, just maybe, you’re not his type of FOX? That, perhaps, it has nothing to do with him being (or not being) a “real” top.
    It’s almost as if you all use it as a defense mechanism to cope with the possibility you may be undesirable. Crazy,

    Lack of masculinity*. My bad. Doing too many things at once.

    1. Yes, based on my experience, those who harp on about wanting masculine only typically tend to be on the hybrid side of things. From what I’ve come across, the first one to talk about wanting someone who is masculine which often equates to being dominant, typically want to be dominated. Its not so much referencing someone who casually wants someone who wears jeans and a t shirt and can maybe catch a ball. I’m talking about those who want a man’s man who MUST be straight acting, un-clockable, in shape, etc. There is something much deeper that goes along with having more rigid standards and I think its important to recognize that this preference didn’t come out of nowhere and is rooted in something. Often times, that something is: although I claim to be a wolf… i will go fox for the “right” one (who is usually the perfect wolf). My experience with wolves who are less concerned with level of masculinity tend to be the ones who are adverse to being dominated and are not comfortable with being with someone who potentially could do so. You don’t have to agree with any of this, not asking you to. Its just… thus far in my life and dating experience… this has been the case.

      1. I won’t say I disagree with the point you’ve just made, but my question is what particularly is so wrong or surprising by that? Men are homosexual because of their attraction to other men. Their emotional, mental, and physical attraction. Regardless of their position, it is that attraction to men (and in turn, their masculinity) that makes them homosexual.

        So then, how is it at all a problem or a surprise that a man who is a wolf/top might want a masculine man too?

        As I said before, I think the issue a lot of you have on this site is the expectation you place on wolves to absolve themselves of homosexuality altogether. You almost desire that they reject masculinity in support of a level of femininity that actually negates what homosexuality really is. Meaning, many of you hold heterosexual expectations in your homosexual relationships.

        So, you see a wolf and almost demand (or expect) that he should want a more feminine and submissive partner. And if he doesn’t, then it must be because he wants to be dominated or because he wants to be topped. It’s kind of ridiculous.

        It reminds me high school when a girl would reject a boy and he would call her a bitch. She’s only a bitch because she doesn’t want you. Same thing applies here.

      2. I’m not entirely sure why it’s coming off as if I am shocked or upset by this? I never said anything was wrong with it either. From the beginning I’ve been saying that there are plenty of wolves who want the idea of what a man is and will chose to be with another wolf who fits that mold and will compromise on the sex thing (hence the frottage comment). Does this account for all wolves who like really masculine men? No. I acknowledge that there have been many instances where those who claim wolf and go on an on about wanting someone who is really masculine and straight acting and so forth who are actually hybrids and foxes in wolf’s clothing. Yes, it is entirely possible for wolves to want someone who is just like themselves. Not saying there isn’t. However, it has not the bulk of what I’ve seen. It isn’t some ideal I’ve made up in my head about what should be.

  22. UrSoVain :
    Your last paragraph is the basis of this entire discussion. A great many of us, foxes, wolves, hybrids, want a man’s man in the heteronormative ideal of what that is. We sing ‘Kumbayah’ about self acceptance and being open but in PRACTICE that is not that case. There is a standard and one must decide whether or not to meet it if they seek to be viewed as ‘of value’ or place others against that standard and view them as such. There is this notion that since we all have penises that we’re pretty much under one umbrela. Yes, we are all MALE but we are not all what the idea of what masculine is as we are part of a different culture, mentality, set of rules, and so forth. So for someone who wants, as you put it, ‘a real masc man’, your most likely to find that in DL wolves, straight men, or really masculine hybrids who often times fake being a wolf for attention.

    I think you might be on to something Vain. Just because I think a dude is fem, doesn’t not mean that the next dude that comes along will think that same dude is fem. We all have a different definition of what masculinity is. Finding a true mascline man is hard.

      1. To me, the definition of a true masculine man is a man who is truly masculine, it’s that smiple. Masculinity is a big reason why I’m attracted to men in he first place. I like a man’s nice deep voice and the way he walks with his back straight and shoulders up. I mean, a dude doesn’t have to play a sport or act like a thug, but just be manly. Is that too much to ask for Vain?

      2. You can’t use the word in the definition of the word. Thats really vague. So you like traits that are associated with our prevailing idea f masculine is like? Deep voice, muscle, carries himself in a certain manner. A lot of what we associate as ‘straight acting’?

  23. JAY :
    It’s a trap Man. Don’t do it! It’s a set up. Lol!

    Too late Jay, we commented at the same time. LOL. Thanks for the warning, but I can handle Vain. We’ve had a few convos. before about topics in this nature.

    1. *gets stiff in the neck like Florida Evans* Damn Damn Damn!

      If you list any superficial qualities of what a man should be anyone can portray themselves to be just that. You see how these dudes put on fitted and wear their trade clothes one day and become zesty as hell the next day. All of these dudes could act like trade if they wanted to.

      On the other hand, if you list deeper qualities like protector, provider, someone who keeps his word, one could argue that even a drag queen with 10 tons of makeup is a real man.

      1. No, he asked me what was the def. of a ”true masculine man.” The characteristics of a ”true man,” are just what you stated. A provider, protector, and someone who keeps their word. Yes, fem. boys can be more of a man than what masculine men are, especially if they have good qualities, but fem. boys can’t be compared to ”true mascline men” in any way, shape, or form.

  24. Random :
    I won’t say I disagree with the point you’ve just made, but my question is what particularly is so wrong or surprising by that? Men are homosexual because of their attraction to other men. Their emotional, mental, and physical attraction. Regardless of their position, it is that attraction to men (and in turn, their masculinity) that makes them homosexual.
    So then, how is it at all a problem or a surprise that a man who is a wolf/top might want a masculine man too?
    As I said before, I think the issue a lot of you have on this site is the expectation you place on wolves to absolve themselves of homosexuality altogether. You almost desire that they reject masculinity in support of a level of femininity that actually negates what homosexuality really is. Meaning, many of you hold heterosexual expectations in your homosexual relationships.
    So, you see a wolf and almost demand (or expect) that he should want a more feminine and submissive partner. And if he doesn’t, then it must be because he wants to be dominated or because he wants to be topped. It’s kind of ridiculous.
    It reminds me high school when a girl would reject a boy and he would call her a bitch. She’s only a bitch because she doesn’t want you. Same thing applies here.

    Right Random, I’m a perfect example of a wolf who wants a masculine man and doesn’t wnat to be topped. I prefer a masculine man because that’s what I like. Yes they are masc. men in this life who like femboys and trannies, but all men do not, and they should not be expected to like those types if that’s not what they want.. The definition of a homosexual man is a man who likes other men, not what type of man he prefers.

  25. UrSoVain :
    You can’t use the word in the definition of the word. Thats really vague. So you like traits that are associated with our prevailing idea f masculine is like? Deep voice, muscle, carries himself in a certain manner. A lot of what we associate as ‘straight acting’?

    Yes, as long as he’s true and honest with it. If a man is pretending to be masc., I would be able to tell because his mannerisms will come out as time progresses.

  26. UrSoVain :
    I’m not entirely sure why it’s coming off as if I am shocked or upset by this?

    When I’m making those comments, I’m speaking generally; not really specifically to you and your reaction.

  27. I can’t call it anymore. I think everyone has moments of femininity in them; and I’ve been attracted to slightly fem dudes, slightly masculine ones, and in between. The only things that turn me off are extremes: butch studs, fem queens, ‘hard’ thugs – I just can’t.

    Just be you – whoever, whatever that is. I just like…guys – I can’t exactly explain it, but I know it when I see it. I don’t like it if people can clock you while we’re out – unless it’s cuz we’re holding hands or something. That doesn’t mean you need to be in a durag, smoking a blunt w/muskles & tattoos…just don’t be girly.

  28. #whoisjamarifox :
    ^what am I reading?
    A bunch of thirsty niggas on someone’s page?

    What you’re reading is a bunch of “tops” going back and forth to each other on how hey would “ride”

      1. well, i gave you my life example. Even while at military school , we ALL had girlfriends, we fucked females.. and we FUCKED THE SHIT outta each other the more.

  29. The Man :
    To me, the definition of a true masculine man is a man who is truly masculine, it’s that smiple. Masculinity is a big reason why I’m attracted to men in he first place. I like a man’s nice deep voice and the way he walks with his back straight and shoulders up. I mean, a dude doesn’t have to play a sport or act like a thug, but just be manly. Is that too much to ask for Vain?

    So if a bottom who fulfills all that come along, what next? You bend over for him?

    1. No that is not what’s next. Are trying to say that I can’t find those qualities in a fox? There is nothing wrong with me for waiting a man with those qualites. We all have a different preference as I’ve been saying for awhile now.

  30. i also have 1 last statement…

    we are in this lifestyle because we like men,
    but we also all have feminine traits within us.
    thats normal and natural.
    even straight men can be feminine at times,
    because a majority of them are raised by their mothers.
    i’m growin up so my wolf doesn’t have to be thug nigga on the block.
    but he must be masculine.
    that is just what i’m attracted too.
    i’m not trying to get with a dude who is floating like a butterfly…
    i like a nice set of pecs and some arms.
    i don’t equate that with being masculine,
    i just like to feel that on top of me.

    hell, i think trey songz and big sean are fuckin gorgeous and they are considered foxes to a lot of people.

    1. right. and so knowing that those are bottoms are you still willing to bend over for them just because they LOOK like what you THINK a man should LOOK like? Do you settle for personas versus who REALLY is a top? Besides you should be a reflection of what you’re looking for – at least. A 400 pound man DEMANDING a slim fit 150 pound dude and saying he doesn’t want “chubby floating ballons” would look ridiculous and sound very ironic and somewhat silly. Do u think the FAT BOY will ACTUALLY get his wish, or remain in fantasy land and settle for whatever piece of dick is thrown his way since he thinks any nice 150 pound dude “likes” him. He likes to “feel slim dudes on top of him”

"off topic", trolling, and other nonsense gets sent to my spam folder. other than that, play nice and let's discuss!