46 thoughts on “A Trip and Fall Down Memory Lane”

1. I don’t judge guys that deal with straight men or engage in pseud-relationship with them under the guise of friendship, but make no mistake, you are the side piece. That’s fine if that’s what you want, but don’t be delusional. You think he’s going to forego a girlfriend, wife, and kids for you if that’s his goal?

   That emotional hold you think you have on him probably won’t override his desire for something more conventional if he’s straddling the fence with you and can’t even define the relationship.

   Just know your role, I’ve told some men and women alike they’re more side material than main. Know where you stand and deal with the benefits and consequences because both exist.

   Sidepieces get treated well. They get the dinners, doors opened for them, even trips depending on the guy. Some of them know they can’t contact the guy at anytime and they can’t get mad or show it when they know he’s entertaining someone else.

2. It’s very easy in the beginning to proclaim that one is all about themselves and not finding someone won’t be the end of the world and blahzay blahzay… when you are young. It’s much easier to say it if you have access to men whom you can entertain and respond to you in various ways. But in a lot of cases that fades. In other’s, their reality is no one is bothing to check for them. Once the work is done and bills are paid and you come home to an empty house over and over again, it gets tough. Yada yada, self respect, yada yada wont compromise one’s self… those are extreme examples. Those are internet memes and tumblr quotes. We are talking about the day to day; you are moving along just fine and waiting for connections to happen. It’s negotiating whether or not this guy you met at work is into you. Its figuring out if you should meet men on the internet because when you are out and about they don’t approach you. It’s about whether or not you are putting yourself out there enough or coming off too strong or maybe just not living in the right space. These are things the majority of us are going through.

   All that stuff about avoiding the thirsties and pushing against the desperate is all fine and good. Not going to tell you that that isn’t a good strategy. However, once the people are blocked and you stop frequenting that one spot… there isn’t that same presence of regular, on the same wavelength, just trying to find companionship men out there. You can love yourself and be satisfied and still struggle to meet men. You can have your ducks lined up in a row and feeling good about the guy you see in the mirror… and still have to figure out if taking another trip alone is worth it. There are tons and tons of us who are going through this. Some aren’t, of course, but that goes without saying.
   It always seems to come down to the problem being that the individual must be on some self deprecating streak or lacking of self love mode as the reason for the lack of love and commitment in one’s life. That those who aren’t winning at love have some fatal flaw they just need to get over and the men will fall from the sky. But if you look around and get to know people and have conversation, you’ll see there are a lot of people just like you who love themselves and think they are worthy of love who still go to sleep and wake up next to cold sheets. We have to really get a hold on that some converse honestly about why that is and who else out there is going through these things. Sure, at 20 or 30 having no one around is no issue…most of the time… but eventually you’ll be 40s and 50s. And 46 and alone is not the same as 22 and alone.

   Yes, I do believe someone would be luck yo have me. Yes, I know I am worthy of being pursued. Yes, if you choose me, you will be making the best choice. But none of that has anything to do with other people and their thoughts and beliefs. None of that can change that I live in a place where there are very few of us and those who are here aren’t checking for anyone who looks like or thinks like myself. None of that can negate the various factors that goes into dating in gay communities of color. If the solution to all of our problems was simply to love yourself, then we wouldn’t even be getting involved with ambiguous men. But we are, and there are very good reasons for that. One’s sexual position, in my opinion plays a huge role in their dating lives. Alpha and Beta males have completely different experiences. Being an aggressive Beta towards alphas does not yeild the same results as being an gressive Alpha towards betas. A lot of us barely know what men like or even how to make emotional connections with men. A lot of men have trouble communicating how they really feel. These factors are important and need to be acknowledged and taken apart if we are to get anywhere.

   1. Very deep man and you are speaking nothing but the truth. There are a lot of different factors involved in this lifestyle when it comes to finding the right mate that are working against most people. The sad thing is, many people fail to realize it and they are focusing on the wrong stuff.

   2. We’ll have to agree to disagree. We’re coming from two different places and that’s okay.

      I’ve had zero serious relationship or close friends…ever. I don’t choose to force any interactions. If anything, after years of feeling worthless and behind I feel like its gotten easier, but only when I started to focus on the goals I could attain and strengthen the relationship with the few people that do care about me. Shouting to the heavens “why me?” gets old for me at least.

      The fact is most gay men cut their already small dating pool in half by what they do in bed, and then the rest by things that have nothing to do with companionship or human interaction. Then we’re not even going to get on the gay men that would never look at another gay man because they believe straight men or the qualities straight men possess are superior. They can be in 20,000 sq. ft gay club every weekend with 100+ dudes and not find one they are remotely attracted to or one they could actually speak to. I hear the same thing “nothing but bottoms in there” or they’ll talk about the quality men in there and some how they are exempt. They’ll run over 15 gay men to get to a straight guy or one that pays them no attention.

      Gay men wait until they are over the hill and can no longer afford to be picky to place values on the qualities they should’ve place importance on in the beginning. I don’t think plethora of alpha tops that resemble a football team are going to fall out of the sky anytime soon so you we can either rearrange priorities now or when you’re 50 if companionship is that important. No, I’m not saying date bums either.

      I can honestly say I would go on a blind date with at least two people in this thread sight unseen. Now it might not work out, but I’ll have no regrets because at least I was open.

      I might very well be alone at 46 and I’ll do the same thing I did from 14-26, encourage myself and survive.

   3. Vain, Vain, Vain, Bro I need to be sitting on the couch paying you, because you can break some shit down, nothing but props to you. I cant front, after reading what Jay wrote about his uncle, that shit hit me like a ton of bricks, I was up late thinking about that, but it seems like if its from an unavailable dude or one who seems to be available, it just does not seem that the outcome is going to be good for gay dudes as they get older. I didn’t even want to admit that I had started dealing with this dude again after reading my old entry, but I know someone needs to hear the truth, that we are not as strong as we think we are, no matter how much we work on building our selves up, our feelings are real. I guess its going to be always one or two dudes in this life time that will make you throw out common sense. I think many times we have wasted so much time on nonsense chasing dudes that we get to a point that we just say “F” it and let what happens, happen. I think I may be at that point. I keep saying to myself, I am playing with fire, but shit if I am honest, I just keep getting closer to the burn.

      It used to be this song that came on the radio when I was kid by Betty Wright, that said having a piece of man, is better than no man at all, and I thought that was stupid then, but damn if I have not employed that same mentality when it comes to dealing with dudes at times in my life. I like to think I am better than I was, but it is always work to be done and room for improvement.

      Thank God for the foxhole and all these brilliant brothers from Jay’s brutal honesty that will get a pineapple right together, to Vain’s realistic view about what really goes on, I need “Old Head” to make an appearance to get his perspective which I always respect and appreciate. Honestly, if it wasnt for this forum, I wonder where in the hell I would be.

      1. We all fall short man.

         I used to mess with this one married dude. Mid 30s, 6’4 looked like an older Lebron James but bald. Gave head so good I shot in my damn eye. Id skip class just to hit him from the back for two hours while he creamed on my dick. I was hooked!

         Shit got real when his wife called me though. I guess she was reading his text messages. I knew the game back then and I knew he’d never call me so I screened the call.

         Apparently, when she confronted him he hit her and she called the police so he left.

         Reality always catches up to you sooner or later.

         Makes me realize I’m not really attracted to most guys under 30. They’re still on bullshit 90% of the time.

         If I’m coming over to chill with a dude 30 and up he’s not worried about how I’m dressed and all that other stuff as much.

   4. Very insightful Vain!

      “All that stuff about avoiding the thirsties and pushing against the desperate is all fine and good. Not going to tell you that that isn’t a good strategy. However, once the people are blocked and you stop frequenting that one spot… there isn’t that same presence of regular, on the same wavelength, just trying to find companionship men out there. You can love yourself and be satisfied and still struggle to meet men. You can have your ducks lined up in a row and feeling good about the guy you see in the mirror… and still have to figure out if taking another trip alone is worth it. There are tons and tons of us who are going through this. Some aren’t, of course, but that goes without saying.
      It always seems to come down to the problem being that the individual must be on some self deprecating streak or lacking of self love mode as the reason for the lack of love and commitment in one’s life. That those who aren’t winning at love have some fatal flaw they just need to get over and the men will fall from the sky. But if you look around and get to know people and have conversation, you’ll see there are a lot of people just like you who love themselves and think they are worthy of love who still go to sleep and wake up next to cold sheets. We have to really get a hold on that some converse honestly about why that is and who else out there is going through these things. Sure, at 20 or 30 having no one around is no issue…most of the time… but eventually you’ll be 40s and 50s. And 46 and alone is not the same as 22 and alone.”

      Very profound. I feel like I can relate to this. I love what JAY has to say as well, but I feel like this is actually hitting the nail on the head of the deeper issues that many of us are going through. Its not JUST self-love that were dealing with, we’re dealing with social standards, colourism, unjustifiably high standards and personal preferences, narcisissim/image dysmorphic disorders, influences, education, and so many every day factors that have a major influence on what happens around us and those we come in contact with, and if they have the intellectual capacity to understand what it all means. Not many have an understanding of whats REALLY going on around us, and even when we have a clue, there’s always more under the surface. Self-love is important but not the only factor here.
      It still natural for people to want someone, but i dont think its unnatural for anyone to NOT to want someone either, it just depends on your experiences and disposition. My experiences seem to be near opposite of yours JAY so my feelings reflect that. I’ve never had anyone pay any interest in me at all. Never had any validation from others in ANY way (not even from the thirsties) I’ve always been made fun of and treated like an outsider. I’ve never felt any semblance of being loved, (even if its false,unhealthy or fleeting). Naturally I would want to experience these things. After a while, even if I’m confident in myself, it forces me to question myself, and I eventually start tearing myself down for not being what ANYONE would want. Its hard to build all that up for yourself, if you’re the only one telling yourself these things. Yes I believe i ahve good qualities and whatever but does it even matter? Its not enough man. Its just not, and the world constantly reminds me that I may have great qualities, but I’m still made fun of for not being the “norm” or an outsider often times, by the objects of my affections. What am I supposed to feel about myself when this happens? How am I supposed to think of myself? I’ve been very strong, but it still hurts and makes me question if being the way I am and authetic and self-assured is even worth it because the world reminds you every day why you shouldn’t be.
      Regardless, I’m going to be steadfast in who I am because even though I hate the struggle, I still do like what I bring to the table. I want to be the change I want to see. I want to be a breath of fresh air.
      At least I’m not toxic and jaded like most people. That whole jaded act is so played out and old. I refuse to submit to that disposition. It wont make me more enlightened than anyone else. I’ll stay nice and friendly and still understand how the world really works. I DO know what its like to be unwanted. Believe me, I know.

3. I love all you guys, your opinions and the collective ability to communicate – it’s likely the common thread that links us together. It’s a beautiful thing.
   I am near certain I love all the guys who visit the foxhole regularly but are less likely to participate, as well – in the forest but behind a tree – or between a rock and a hard place, perhaps. Taking it all in and nodding in agreement. We all speak for you as well.
   My story changed when I stumbled upon this blog – truthfully – and it continues to evolve as I read the posts and replies that claw there way ever closer to the heart of life.
   Your life – life in general – is not defined by a destination – which would ultimately be the end, which is death, which itself makes no sense, right? Life is journey.
   Love is a journey. Sex is just the manifestation of a wished upon destination. Too often we confuse the two.

4. At some point self respect needs to kick in and one has to decide they’re worth it.

   Those old gays did the same things a lot of us are doing now. Sex, chasing unavailable men, settling for crumbs, and more sex.

   I had a uncle that died of aids he caught from a married man. Ask me what he accomplished in his life. Absolutely nothing! All in the name settling because he probably wanted human interaction or form of pseudo affection and he still died alone in his own feces.

   1. Wow! That’s horrible! We’re trapped in a cycle and system that forces us to be tentative about how we live to the point where our human needs are too much and we allow absolutely anything!
      Funny thing is, I worry that this kind of thing can happen to the most mentally secure of us out here if were lonely enough. Scary shit!

5. This entry has me feeling some kind of way tonight. I went back and read what I wrote 4 years ago and was blown away because here recently after not really dealing with the dude I wrote about in that entry for so long, I met up with him and we have been inseparable ever since, he has paid more attention to me than any dude I have ever really seriously dated. I realized I buried my feelings deep but they are slowly coming back up to the surface. I dont know where the hell this is headed because he is still married but texts me morning, noon and night. We have even went out and the wife came along and I felt like he was catering to both of us lol, sitting between me and the wife and buying me drinks right in front of her. J, I refrain from commenting on your work wolf situation for this very reason, I find myself grappling and dealing with these same feelings, but coming here everyday reading these wise men on here words, have me still very cautious about revealing any true deep feelings, and acting foolish because he hurt me before by his actions. He has opened up like I never thought he would, and I think even now he would admit that he has some feelings for me. I used to think it was one sided with only me feeling him. Honestly, I dont even know how to play this, because I am enjoying this attention, but I know eventually its going to come to a head and realistically he is married so he will never be available like I probably need him to be. Life can be so damn complicated sometimes. Im just gone go with the flow this time around and not worry about it for once.

   A very special shoutout to Des and Dignified. You dudes have spoke to my spirit tonight, with your comments, so wise to be so young.

   1. Oh, that’s a sticky situation right there! I won’t judge you for it, we’re human after all. Be careful about that, at the end of the day you still have to protect your feelings, be prepared for the worst. Good luck on that Tajan!

6. Truthfully, I’m sure Id be sad if I never found someone, but life will go on and I need to be ok with myself. I need to know I was a good person that helped people in my own way. I need to know I accomplished all my goals.

   I refuse to base whether my life was a failure or not on if I find someone to hold my hand. I won’t! Love might not ever come. I am working on being open and receptive to it if it does come though.

7. @Jay
   I’m doing well actually. Thank you for thinking about me. I’m glad you got a lot out of my blog and our interactions. I was basically trying to write down all of what I was experiencing just so that i can easily go back reference things. I never really knew it had an impact on anyone. And it’s very easy on an internet platform where the only thing you have is words to express yourself to make the judgment that someone is attractive. But out in the real world, words aren’t as important as the chemistry. We love to wax poetic about how important character or values or self respect is but in practice, he must have a certain look, a certain level of income, a certain way he presents himself, otherwise all of those things are out of the window. When we start being more honest about what we are really after then i think we will start making some progress. And yes, I recognize the difference in treatment, no matter how amazing you think i am when it comes to color of my skin compared to someone else. I see it all the time in my interactions with men. We aren’t in a perfect world obviously. There are still deep rooted, pathological ideologies in many of us. Those of us who are not on the privilege side of things are very much aware of it. Colorism is very real. They don’t care about your personality if you don’t initially catch their attention because you don’t look a certain way. Your humor does not make you boyfriend material. Your kindness and self respect mean nothing if it isn’t coupled with particular aesthetics. There is an intersectionality of various factors that plays a role in how men choose as a partner.
   And as far as being alone, that gets old. Blah Blah Blah about being okay with being by yourself and enjoying “me time” but after 2 or 5 or 10 years of nothing, it gets old. Especially when you are in spaces where you don’t have many options. We can go on and on about loving yourself and self improvement but it is no replacement for human contact. Ambiguous interactions serve as a way of getting something that we all need. It may not be as cut and dry as moving towards getting a relationship but it’s still interaction nonetheless. No one is neglecting themselves. It is so frustrating when having these sorts of conversations when people take it to that extreme. You can be working on yourself and doing what you are supposed to do and still need love and acceptance. A job is not going to tuck you in at night on your preferred side of the bed. A hobby will not hold your hand in a movie and squeeze it when it starts getting good. A trip to some far off land will not tell you how great he feels about having you in his life and how appreciative he is of you choosing everyday to be there. I think it’s troubling when we dismiss the significance of having a great love.
   If there were a plethora of emotionally available, commitment oriented, “he’s looking for what I’m looking for” men out there, we would be having a much different discussion. If you talk to a lot of older gays, being alone seems less like a possibility and more like a probability. That is scary. You’re allowed to not want to be alone. You are allowed to want to have a partner. This solo-dolo stuff is a pseudo suit of armor that masks the Plenty of Fish accounts and social messages sent to inboxes of men you want to do more than just converse with. Its foolish to listen to people wax poetic about how comfortable they are with being by themselves and believe every word. They are human and have basic needs. If you a little pocking around you will find that none of it is true.

   1. ^extremely deep vain!

   2. Well, we’re coming from two totally different places.

      Anyone that doesn’t care to notice I’m funny, have great character, loyal as hell, etc. isn’t for me honestly. You’ll notice those same people are alone because they are a victim of their own superficial values.

      Those dudes DON’T have a man either! So can we try something different?

      Honestly, most of the people I’ve encountered in my life have not been positive. Maybe I subconsciously chose to let those people in my life because of the mind state I was in.

      Would I like companionship? Sure! Companionship or the pursuit of it doesn’t consume my entire being and I’m not willing to compromise my self respect for it anymore with sex or settling for being treated inferior.

      That’s not trite bullshit, its the truth!

      So yes I keep myself busy and develop different interest and concentrate on how I can improve myself.

      Now every since I shifted focus to me, I find that a lot of foxes approach me THIRSTY, PARCHED and its a turn off. I can tell they’re desperate because when I don’t move fast enough for their liking, they announce to the world they’re “taken” by someone else on instagram, still on jackd though!

      I’ve spent my entire life seeking approval and acceptance from family, “friends”, supervisors, and men, when I would’ve been in a much better place if I loved and accepted myself as I’m beginning to now.

      People say the same thing about why they have sex with multiple partners, fuck married men, or settle for having him after 2 a.m. “its still an interaction nonetheless”

      Do you genuinely feel like someone would be lucky to have you? Seriously. No false confident bravado shit.

      Do you feel you deserve to be pursued? If a man chose only you for the rest of his life, do you think he made the best choice?

      1. Damn JAY, you went in!!

      2. Yeah, I definitely don’t want to be one of those foxes. I’m lonely, but not desperate, and I will never make myself seem like the “wolf” is the only one who’s making a decision here. It needs to work both ways, and if he’s not sweatin’ me as much as I’m sweatin’ him, that would kind of put me off. I’m no jackal or hoe, but I’m still attractive enough to have options, I just choose not to. If I’m just a “tossed salad on the side” I will “forget/lose his number”…OOPS! lol!

         “Do you genuinely feel like someone would be lucky to have you? Seriously. No false confident bravado shit.

         Do you feel you deserve to be pursued? If a man chose only you for the rest of his life, do you think he made the best choice?”

         Tbh JAY, I really don’t know. If I say yes then that’s presumptuous and honestly a somewhat arrogant answer, we all have flaws we need to work on, I’m not rich, I’m not attentionsisto attractive, but attractive enough, I’m kind of awkward and shy in person, I’m a little insecure, but not to the point where I need a lot of hand holding, sometimes just some reassurance is good. but I can say that I’m smart, I’m super loyal, supportive, and caring and understanding, I can talk someone’s ear off (are you surprised? 😉 but I love to observe and listen to people. I love to hear their stories and who they are as people. I actually give a shit about the people I talk to, or else I wouldnt talk to you at all. I will always keep it authentic and respectful I have my moods, and get stressed easy, and when my temper flares, I’m bull-headed but it takes alot to get me to that point. I don’t bitch about stupid shit, I just keep quiet lol. If wolves really liked those attributes like they say they do, then I’d be fighting them off me by now. They don’t want me though.

         Like Vain said, there are still other instinctive factors that come in to play here. <<<Brilliant deduction btw.

         To some people that may be a lot, but idc, that's me. I may not be super cool or whatever, but I'm loyal and genuinely try to bring authentic energy to those I come in contact with. I won't tell anyone if I deserve to be pursued, or if they're lucky to have me, thats on THEM to decide because I dont fucking know what wolves want tbh. I feel like what I bring to the table is the ingredients for healthy interaction, but if he's trapped in his own unhealthy mindset and lifestyle, he will not be attracted to that. I'm not easy, or sloppy, but they tend to go for that, and act like I'm corny if I'm not the same for when THEY'RE ready, as if they're the only one's with an opinion that matters. Trust me, if these guys were as fly as they think they are, I'd be more easy lol.

         Again, it s a two way street, and I'm willing to meet you half-way and extend the olive branch, but if you're not, then I won;t waste any more time on you. They may not think so, but I value the way I feel about myself too much to drag myself down for some fool.

   3. Now that’s the kind of sermon I needed today. Preach it Vain

   4. I agree with this. I have learned to love myself, and thats great and all, but to have someone else affirm what i’ve been believing JUST ONCE would be nice! I try to be as strong as I can, but sometimes having someone there to catch me when I fall or a place of trust would be nice. I’d also like to be a pillar for him when he’s struggling as well.
      Its all great to be single and better yourself, but after a point, it DOES get old. Whats the point of improving yourself if you can;t share it with anyone? Its pretty discouraging!
      I’ve been bettering myself my whole life, and its getting real tired lol. You start to feel like you’re wasting your time and getting absolutely no where, or that it means nothing in the long haul.
      Its not healthy to be alone ALL the time. I still love myself, but I still want someone, I dont NEED them, but it’d be nice to have a nice healthy, loving interaction with a man without everything being about what our society thinks.

8. I had to go back and re-read that entry. I was like 22 when i wrote it. I was in a place where i was trying to make sense of all of what I had learned up until that point. Years later, a lot of it still rings true. I am still navigating this world of men. Like you, i have a close relationship with a straight wolf. So far, hes treated me better than 98% percent of the guys I’ve interacted with. I have gotten everything from flowers to dinners to Good morning (smiley face) texts. That means something. You we are not stupid. We are going with what feels good. Yes, its complicated and frustrating but it’s a lot better than trying to negotiate your way around internet dating and ambiguous men who won’t talk to you in public or even while the sun is up. We have to ask ourselves if the actions speak louder than the commitment. We have to wonder if maybe this is thing we have with them is a real connection and perhaps society is telling us it has to be done a certain way otherwise it is wrong. I say if it makes you happy… keep doing it until it doesn’t. Once that happens, move on to something else.

9. We all want someone to love. It can be hard to find love in today’s society. Everyone has so many things that they are for. Expectations and requirements are top priority in my book. I have always had such a high wall up on what I want in a man. It has been 7 years since I have had anyone to enter me, so I can hold out for years. I am a versatile individual, so I have been getting it in doing other guys. It is hard to find true love.

10. First off, I hope Vain is doing well.

    Second, it was like I reading comments from another person when I read my responses lol.

    What you and Vain may never realize is how you express yourselves on here and through my hundreds of emails between you guys is what makes you attractive.

    I still remember a lot of the things Vain has imparted on me through emails and his blogs that I didn’t even click until later on. That called planting seeds within someone and its powerful. So you mean that same person that has that kind of affect ,on me of all people, is out here in some unspoken competition with lightskin bottoms? I won’t accept that.

    In the grand scheme of things how you make people feel and the impression you leave on them is all that matters. I can find a good looking dude or a fat ass every two blocks. I can’t find someone that makes me feel safe, valued, RESPECTED, loved, and encouraged…outside of myself that is..

    Please don’t make it seem like all tops are hoes with no feelings and bottoms are all innocent victims. I’ve met plenty that would rather BE DOUBLE TEAMED, than join mine. That’s real shit!

    A lot of us are terrified to be alone. Hell, I’m only beginning to really enjoy being alone myself. I spent a whole lot of years pretending not to care and pretending I was ok being alone and unwanted. I only really began to enjoy being alone when I woke up and realized I have value! Even if no else sees it, I KNOW it.

    So I can actually be at home alone and not feel sad or depressed. I can develop new hobbies and plan my day alone.I don’t have to cling to people that really don’t value me and don’t reciprocate my respect and feelings.

    I see every day as a chance to improve myself for myself.

    Some of you are using these ambiguous interactions with men as a surrogate for the attention you’d receive a conventional relationship. Much like my using sex, it’s only going to work so long because when he’s doing what heterosexual or men that have expressed no interest in you explicitly do, you’ll still be alone.

    In fact no matter what, realize you’ll only have yourself in the end. If you continue to neglect yourself in an effort to be loved or accepted by someone else, you’ll realized you’ve wasted your life.

    I essentially spent my 20’s depressed, suicidal, and shut in. I’m off that.

    1. “In the grand scheme of things how you make people feel and the impression you leave on them is all that matters. I can find a good looking dude or a fat ass every two blocks. I can’t find someone that makes me feel safe, valued, RESPECTED, loved, and encouraged…outside of myself that is..”

       Between this and what DES said, is what I’ve been trying to say this whole time. its not the dick or the ass, its the guy ATTACHED to it. I will never love your dick/ass, but I can love the person attached to it. How you make me FEEL will always trump everything else. I would hope to leave that same impression on someone some day.

    2. ^this has got to be the sweetest thing you have ever written on here.

       1. Lol I’m not sweet lol

          1. ^okay
             okay
             you are the big bad jay!

11. ^great comment des.

    personally,
    and i can’t speak for anyone else,
    but it should be all based on the emotional connection you have with someone.
    if you meet someone and you are both “foxes” and it works,
    then go right ahead.
    if its two “wolves” then go right ahead.
    hell i have dated a hybrid before.
    the thing with that is that those roles do show face eventually.
    after the novelty wears off,
    what happens next?

    the thing is this…

    if you feel comfortable in a “role”,
    then do it.
    if you don’t,
    then do that.
    you have to try and make whatever it is work,
    but there are plenty of people who aren’t in any roles and single.
    and there are plenty in roles who have met who they were looking for.
    and vice versa.
    the real problem is people being bored,
    finding easy sex,
    and not building a foundation with each other.
    thats not even a role.
    thats 95% of this life.

12. OMG YES to everything you and Vain wrote. Every single fucking word. I sometimes think it’s a curse to be a fox and not a wolf in this lifestyle. As The Man pointed out in yesterday’s entry there is a shortage of Quality masculine wolves in this lifestyle. I think the big reason why I loved Noah’s Arc TV series so much is because it showed the fantasy of such a wolf wanting to be with a bottom like Noah who wasn’t a gym bunny,, had emotions and wasn’t about the hooking up club like culture this lifestyle is associated with.

    It’s like as Foxes we are only given one or two options:

    1.) pine after the straight wolf who’s not gay but treats you good( the kind of good that’s bae material) hoping something changes or

    2.) get get jack’d or become apart of the mess of the lifestyle too hook up while you’re waiting for the one

    P.S. Vain I love your thought process I still have the ” Foxtrails they smiled real wide for the camera lens” entry Jamari posted a few years back,where you broke it down what it’s like in this lifestyle bookmarked in my phone as words to live by. I look at it from time to time just when I need some truth.

    Thanks for your words you wrote to J because I seriously thought I was just the only one who ever acted stupid chasing after a wolf.

13. In this lifestyle could it be that we put too much emphasis on sex/sex roles and not enough on someone’s character, their heart, their inner being? we quickly identify others/ourselves as top/bottom. Is there too much emphasis on the sexual part? i know its hard for many people to grasp this but you can only have so much sex. real relationships cant be centered around sex and if they do then can we really say that its a relationship of substance? many gay relationships fail because they are based on sex. like i said, we even use identifiers as tops, bottoms and versatile. it sounds like some people are more focused on having a sexual relationship with someone that fits their ideals and standards physically vs a real relationship that can exist for some length of time. Sex roles should never be the number one factor in determining if someone is dateable or not. many people say it’s not but in the gay lifestyle it is. if people are eliminated just because they are a top or bottom then isn’t that what some of us are doing? I’m not going on the premise of if you are a top you are masculine and if you are a bottom then you are feminine. Let’s throw that out the window because that is not always the case either. if you met a guy who was nice to you, respected you, had great conversation, was handsome, and had a decent body, had moral values and really made you smile, he was dependable, he was responsible, but he was versatile, what would you do? Or lets say he was a bottom but you considered yourself a bottom, what would you do? Mind you he has met 9 out of the 10 criteria you have set for what you are looking for in a man, but the sexual component is “wrong.” Have we been lying to ourselves saying that we want a good man but in reality we want a good sexual relationship since we put “sexual role” as the number one factor? We say it’s not the number one factor but for many it really is. I know many people may argue me down on this point but when you really are into someone and i mean really into them, a lot of those im a top, im a bottom labels can go out the window. believe it or not, you can share in enjoyable, orgasmic intimacy without even having penetration. I guess what I’m saying is, don’t get so caught up in I’m a fox looking for a wolf, or im a wolf looking for a fox. just go out and try to meet cool people and see what happens. you could really be missing out on the love of your life. I knew someone that once was asked, so what are you, a top or a bottom? Their answer, “I’m the opposite of whatever you are.” LOL I guess the point is that if you really meet the person of your dreams that has everything else would you be open to eliminating the “sexual roles” and just spend your time loving that person. Cuz when you are into someone you will “rise” regardless of who is on top. LOL Not saying this is the solution for everyone. This is just my observation and opinion. Let our actions reflect our words. We say want a relationship with a good man yet many times we place “sexual roles” as the number one factor. Being able to put it down sexually doesn’t constitute you as being a good man. Bottoms, the man that could give you the world and treat you like you want to be treated may be another bottom. Same things for the tops. Dont be so quick to throw people to the side because you see them as the “same as you.” Sorry for the long post, but it was something that I had been thinking about for a while.

    1. Interesting, I agree with with some of your points. A lot of us do tend to let our sexual roles define us but what do you say to someone needs sex and know in their heart of hearts they aren’t into bottoming or topping but wants a quality relationship. Sometimes stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason I don’t know if it can be changed because of love. One might seem like they are settling instead of compromising in a relationship.

       1. I definitely understand where you are coming from, i guess the question is if we make ones “sexual role” the determining factor on whether or not we will date a person or not? If that is the case then we can sometimes miss out on a person that is really good for us and limiting the pool of people we could date? It was more of a question and just something to think about.

    2. ^I LOVE THIS COMMENT DES! I have a love/hate relationship with the “top/bottom” identifiers. I don’t really fit in any either one, but at the same time I fit both LOL!
       . I love what that guy said: “the opposite of whatever you are!” I feel like we should all try to be more like that..

       1. I guess it depends on where a person is. it won’t work for everyone. i think people who have been on both sides (versatile) can relate to this a little more. however, i had a friend who was strictly a top, he said if and when he met the right guy and was in a relationship he would be open to being versatile if his man wanted it. He said he would definitely be open to being in a relationship with a top. Now he wasn’t talking random sex he was talking relationship which is different. again, i just think it depends on where a person is in their life. It’s definitely an interesting topic.

    3. I hear you bro. However, I need booty in my life. I’m only 21, and I’m not going to be in a sexless relationship at this age lol. From a Fox’s prospective, this many be a solution, which is why you said it wasn’t for everyone. Plus, the other party has to be up for it. Both people have to be willing.

    4. Sadly, and no offense, but the majority isn’t evolved enough to really grasp and apply this concept.

       Top and bottom has become synonymous with qualities to them and its a quick way to eliminate potential people. Very much like that movie Divergent.

       This world is very much driven by the superficial and you’re seeing the results of that permeating through everyone involved. Dudes ask you your sexual position or deduce it upon initial meeting

14. Wow. What a deep response. I definitely felt that one. I’ve been really feeling it recently, but I’m tired of not feeling good enough for one reason or another. I know I can bring a lot to the table, and no i’m not some light-skinned and swaggarific with light eyes etc.
    I’m not a porn star or a sex-doll, I’m a human being. Don’t just call me up expecting only sex and just leave and never talk to me again like wtf is that? If thats what the two people want than thats fine, but thats not what I want, and I dont give it up like that, and if he’s slanging the dick at me right away I might get put off. Its suspicious. Like do you even know me? DO you even care? I’m not waiting until after the deed is done to find out you have some infested dick or something worse.

    Ew.

    The problem is the dynamic. we’re forced to live in the shadows so were not allowed to be anything OTHER than sex-dolls. Honestly, if thats all I was I could be a web-cammer and get paid for it, instead of giving it up to a nobody FOR FREE! Like why am i even seeing you?

    So, no, I’m not wasting my time with no pineapple unless there IS a destination from the get-go, or I’m off that. If I let myself “be free” with someone for one night and he leaves, do you know what that might do to me? That might damage my (I must admit, already fragile)self-esteem that I’ve spent the last few years building up. As much self-esteem that I have it still feels like a glass fortress. One bad rock in the wrong spot could potentially bring the whole thing crumbling down to the pieces I had to build it from.

    We don’t know how to communicate with each other, and its hard to do so in public and its hard even in private because of our pre-conditioned conceptions of what masculinity is SUPPOSED to be versus what it ACTUALLY is. The cycle will continue to orbit until we break the cycle or create anew one.

    Until then, we will be lonely or just bouncing around from dick/ass to dick/ass because “men aren;t DESIGNED to be monogamous” or “DESIGNED to care” but I call bullshit on that . The state of our self-esteem as a community is deplorable at best.

    Oh and we need to learn how to be more accepting of different types of people. Its okay to have preferences but c’mon.

    and btw, I know it means little coming from one person, but dark-skinned men are so freaking sexy,and there a re plenty of people out here who feel the same. I still have yet to understand the hang-ups our people STILL have about colorism. Its self-deprecating, and time to let it go, and to other people, if you’re black, you’re dark-skinned by default anyway.

    The writer is probably a stud.

15. Jamari this is why for the last 3 years I have been reading your blog on a daily basis, you nailed it with this post it hits home for me. I try to act like I’m okay being single but I’m not. I see my cousins and friends being in long term relationships, some are thinking marriage and having kids and I’m sitting over here like damn wtf is going on in my life. Yeah being lonely is not a good or healthy thing so as of late I’m trying to meet someone wish me luck. I even started speaking to some wolves at the gym so hopefully something comes out of that. (P.S.) can I find a wolf like The Man or Jay lol those dudes are nasty and commical.

    1. ^im glad it could promote thought and convo within the foxhole.
       it’s not easy and i need to vent when I need too.

       1. Exactly venting is good I have been so private all my life and will continue too but at 25 I’m starting to look at my life different, some of my f**ks have ran out. Ima find somebody soon.

          1. ^you will.
             I can’t promise you when.
             just keep the faith.
             you aren’t the only one.

    2. ^See…you are the total opposite of me. I was in a long-term relationship that ended because people couldn’t stand to see a strong relationship going for so long. Jealousy reared its head. Since that relationship ended, I have not had the desire to enter into another one. I get what I want, and I’m done. I’m upfront with the people I deal with, making sure to let them know I’m not in it for the long haul. Of course you have that one who thinks they will change your mind, but when it doesn’t happen..they get angry. Why? I didn’t lie about anything.
       I see my friends and family members going through all kinds of drama with their wives/girlfriends/baby mamas…and I say to myself I’m glad I don’t have to endure that mess. I don’t miss it, and I don’t feel lonely. In fact, I enjoy being alone…right now. If they ask me why I’m not married or have kids, I just say why…so I can join you in misery? Not gonna happen! LOL
       Maybe that will change, maybe it won’t. I don’t dwell on it either.

       1. Honestly, at least you let them know upfront what the deal is. I don’t see a problem with that. You know what you want and you say it. No bs. Well need to be “no bs” about what we want.

       2. @ Christian I’m sorry that your relationship ended and that’s sad jealousy caused it to crumble. I hate when family members ask me questions about dating, marriage, and kids. The thing is I want a relationship just to be committed to one person, but I know with my discreet lifestyle I don’t know how it will go but I want to try it. I look at my cousins and seeing them being happy in relationships. They are a few that go through the drama and cheating but I see the rest just being happy even though no relationship is perfect. I have been single for awhile so I want to try something new lol.

16. That was a lot. I must admit it is tough out here. I personally haven’t had a lot of bad experiences like the majority of gay men…yet I’m still very young. I do get a sense where you all are coming from. As men in this lifestyle grow older, they are aware that their looks will fade, so once one reaches their thirties, they feel their time is limited to find someone who will love them since in the minds of many this lifestyle has to a lot to do with appearance. There are many people out here who are superficial, which a fucked up way of thinking, and has caused many people to question themselves and their value because of it. The lifestyle focuses much on physical traits when it comes to a partner that no one really thinks about the characteristic ones, which matter the most in my opinion. Those who wants to be loved have to pick themselves up and have hope that their man is out there somewhere.

    1. ^well you are one wolf who gets it.
       thank you for being understanding.
       its a struggle.

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