This may end up having a GREAT discussion…
I know that my Foxes and Wolves are on another plateau of the game,
but are some of us missing the skills to pull the man of your dreams?
The article below breaks the down the ever questionable “gay face“…
Gay men do not differ from straight men in the size and shape of any facial feature. Rather, the use of certain expressions can become ingrained in the musculature of the face over time. Since effeminate gay men utilize similar facial expressions as women, they develop female aging and muscle contraction patterns in their face. For example, gay face includes tightness around the mouth from pursing the lips, a facial expression common to gay men and women – but not to heterosexual men. Also, gay men are more emotionally expressive, leading to a general “tightness” and muscular activation through out the entire face. Gay face includes an eye expression that is both surprised looking and predatory. Eyebrows are usually arched higher than that of straight men, and eyebrow hair is manicured. There is often a slightly tan and/or leathery look to the skin, especially among older gay men. Lesbians also have a version of gay face that emulates the facial muscular usage patterns straight men. They exhibit an under expression of emotion, relaxed brows, relaxed eyes, and less taut mouth and cheek muscles than straight women. The skin is usually pale and splotchy.
Article: The Case of the Gay Face
How interesting.
Now Prince has those same qualities and is as hetero as he wants to be, so is their opinion is flawed?
When I think of a gay face, I think of:
Mouth slathered in lip gloss.
Eye brows arched like the Golden Arches at McDonalds.
Permanent pursed lips with automatic smacked gums
Even as far as this example:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDHFS5oII20]
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQaiu5p15k&feature=related]
Ya know, this whole topic made me think…
Foxes and Wolves are always on the prowl in public.
I was told if you look too “masculine”, you may miss your mark.
If you look too “feminine”, you may turn everyone else off.
So which is it?
Wolves hunting on online chat sites want masculine ONLY, but they always end up wifing up the opposite…
The Jackals and Hyenas have no problem getting the Wolves of a Fox’s dreams.
And all they do is walk out the house…
Is this how the finest D/L or “trade” find Foxes these days?
And why is it so hard to find “masculine” when we automatically think he is straight?
Also, what if you are discreet and just a regular dude, is it that much harder?
From Butch Queens to No Queens, it seems everything has a title in this lifestyle.
You can’t just be normal because normal is against the rules.
You have to either push from one extreme or the next.
They say gay knows gay and a gay face, eyes, mouth, nostrils, or body language speaks a thousand words…
But if those qualities don’t apply to “you“, then “you” are single and alone….
I couldn’t help but wonder:
Jamari tell us rather or not you have a gay face i’ve always been so curious how you look.
hayle no.
maybe if i did, i’d have some starting 5 wolves lol
It works!! At least in the sense that it gets their attention. I’m with johnny on the part where it hasnt necessarily gotten me a boyfriend but its definitely opened up lines of communication. It works especially well on straight men and total tops though. You can get them to do just about anything. Most butch queens… (like Jay lol)… not so much. They tend to view it in sort of a “wtf?” type of way and we end up being like… bytch u can get that shyt yourself!
I dont think its necessarily a “fem” mentality. Like what YngBlkWolf said “there’s a need to have an Alpha and a beta, and with a slightly effeminate boy, there’s really less question” I think it leans more on the lines of being submissive and letting the other guy lead. I know this is especially true when in a relationship. Some boys are more concerned with having their “dominance” or “manhood” recognized and exercised so they struggle with the whole masculine vs masculine dynamic.. I have no issues being the submissive one. Having dinner paid for and doors opened for me. I’m less concerned with this idea of “manhood” because i don’t feel it applies to me. There are of course limits to how much you’re willing to put up with and how autonomous you’ll be but that’s all negotiated within the beginning stages of dating.
Now… a fox needs to FIND a date to exercise these things on. So here we are…
Lololol!
I am no where near a butch queen. You probably couldn’t even pick me out of a line up of men you knew were gay/bi. I’m more trade than butch queen..and not in the way a delusional butch queen would say. lol
I suppose it would work for someone short and cute like yourself, but some big ass 6’4 dude with a deep voice wanting to play a damsel in distress is…strange. I don’t like “intentional” stroking of my ego.
As long as you understand doing things like that will make you the bottom by default…forever more! lol
They dont even know whats going on lol
Vain i thought i was the only one who does that LMAO got to use that damsel in distress on these dudes
I’ll just throw it out there…fem boys fuck like porn stars too! I mean seriously they will fuck you stupid, don’t let helpless, dainty act fool you outside the bedroom.
Masculine or dudes trying to be masculine who happen to be bottoms are less free spirited in the bedroom and are often slow to warm up in most cases.
Frankly, I am weary of fem dudes. One that used to work with me called me by some term of endearment that made me uncomfortable (sweetheart, sweetie, honey, etc) and I really snapped on him, like very seriously and publicly.
Like if some dude acted helpless the way Vain describes I’d be turned off. I only fuck with men who can go toe to toe with me, bottom, top, or verse.
I can understand YungBlkWolf’s perspective and I’ve known a few guys who’s boyfriends become more and more fem and they claim to still D.L., not for long in my opinion.
^^ don’t doubt that.
when you see them on XTube,
they are riding the dick like a rapper rides the beat.
smooth execution on the dick.
job well done.
Honestly… i dont really know. My guess would be the latter. Not only are they the easiest to spot, i think they also might prefer that sort of hetero-normative, masculine/ feminine, type of dynamic. I’ve met plenty of masculine wolves down in ATL who prefer fem boys. Who look at boys you and i would find desirable like “ew, trade need not apply.” Its not all of them obviously, but there is a good number who feel that way.
There are plenty of wolves who fall in line with the sort of anti-fem sort of thinking but if you ask the fem boys they’ll tell you that the most masculine of masculine men are the ones who approach them the most. Even straight men have this affinity for them. I remember one conversation with a fellow classmate who, in reference to his straight male interaction, said that they weren’t necessarily drawn to him because he was homosexual but they were more so drawn to his femininity. He get treated like a women as in boys open doors for him and he can boss them around and such. I’ve sort of taken from that and in my interactions with men i draw on that sort of dainty, delicate, sometimes helpless way of going about things like… for example flirting and being bashful as opposed to like “So wassup wit u?” or asking them to reach for things on top shelves (“Im so short… i cant reach it. You’re really big and tall. Can you get it? Thank you!) or acting dumb and pretending not to know how to like access something on the computer or open a jar or a can and it works, THEY EAT THAT SHYT UP! There may be a baseline need to be in situations that stroke their ego and make them feel like “men” and fem boys may be the ones who give them that.
But again I honestly dont know. This is all just based on my experiences and observations.
I agree with that. In the end, you want to be needed/useful, solve problems, be there for your boo…and a fem boy gives you that ‘comfort’ of providing protection and security but he has a dick. I mean, it seems odd — especially given DL dudes (or even discreet ones), but I see it and I’ve noticed it in my life too. The last couple dudes I dated were fem — possibly/probably clockable — but not outright queens, so I was cool with it. But I noticed I treated them in many ways like a would a girl, and it felt good to my manhood (no pun intended).
Now, I’m not sure about butch queens or those who are already out, but it might play a similar pattern. Even if it’s behind closed doors, there’s a need to have an Alpha and a beta, and with a slightly effeminate boy, there’s really less question. I mean, yes I know you’re a man – so it’s not about deception, but more about…I guess hard-wiring, for lack of a better word.
In fact, I’m pretty sure one relationship of mine ended because I was too much of a man – not submissive enough…I reminded him that he wasn’t with a women too much — as evidenced by the next couple people he dated and his own admission later. So…there’s definitely something to that dynamic
^^ Vain and Wolfie are on it as usual…
so now I have a question…
do we need to have that FEM mentality?
Because it seems the answers lie in a few changes in some mental glitches and attitude changes….
I thought I was alone with that lol. I’ve almost always found myself being treated more like a girl when I deal with guys instead of “one of the guys” and wondered why that is. I’ve been in those “Im so short… i cant reach it. You’re really big and tall. Can you get it? Thank you!” types of situations so many times probably almost word for word, but always unintentionally. Interesting to see a possible mindset and reasoning behind it. Unfortunately, it’s never gotten me a boyfriend lol.
I always believed in gay face, but I never linked it to eyebrows or facial expressions. Some gay guys I’ve seen I’d look at and think “There is no way in hell he could have that face and not be gay” but I usually assumed it was the person’s facial structure and not their facial expression. So again, it’s really interesting see possible reasoning for it.
I always knew gay boys hold their faces differently than straight boys do. I agree with the article in that because we tend to be more expressive and use our facial muscles differently. I believe its how we’re able to spot each other so easily. I dont know about the stuff regarding the lesbians? Seems kind of like they’re describing the studs.
But I don’t know anyone who says “i cant date him because he’s too regular”? Who is saying you can’t be yourself? I’m not understanding. We have words like “Butch queen” and “versatile” to give a general sense of what a person is like because as humans, we follow patterns. People naturally give labels to things to better understand them and point them out when they come up again. The words we use are just general outlines to describe cultures and behaviors that tend to be specific to our demographic. You can be whoever you want to be. What i find is that those who are concerned with being labeled fear being categorized under what they deem as the WRONG one as opposed to being labeled in general.
When it comes to looks, if you fall in line with those who DO NOT like men, then of course it’s going to be difficult to spot you. If someone is the type to try their hardest to blend in with the straight folks, how do they justify getting upset when homosexual men overlook them? That doesn’t make sense to me. You’re getting the exact result you were looking for on both sides. We are not mind readers, we go based on what we see and how those characteristics fit within our schema. We don’t live in an environment where we can approach anyone and politely get turned down when they express to not being interested in men. Hence we have to go off of what we know falls in line with men who are more likely to be interested in men, and stick with that.
^good breakdown Vain.
so why do you think our queeny counterparts get the Wolves, even though those same Wolves claim to be so anti-FEM?
is it persistence? luck? or do Wolves really just want a submissive personality that reminds them of a woman?
“From Butch Queens to No Queens, it seems everything has a title in this lifestyle.
You can’t just be normal because normal is against the rules.
You have to either push from one extreme or the next.”
AGREE 1000%. Men can’t just be themselves if they’re interested in other men. They have to fit neatly into the little boxes assigned to them. They’re not supposed to break the mold and they must be constrained. This way of thinking is so disgusting, ignorant, and unfair. Judge a person for who they REALLY are, not who you think they should be, or society tells them they should be. Let people DECIDE for themselves how they wanted to be defined. Live and let live.
I have to honestly say that I haven’t experienced giving off the wrong impression, because I am fairly approachable yet distant. Like if you were to come and talk to me, I would entertain the conversation. However when you ask for my number I won’t give it to you because like Jordan said I haven’t done my ninja work so I don’t really know you. I try to keep the balance of me being a metrosexual or pretty boy symmetric with my masculinity.
yeah i know what you mean. thats why when they come to me they get bonus points. but id rather make the first move than play games.
^ so how do you meet Wolves, Foxes, or Hybrids?
I usually have to make the first move. Or I do some ninja work on a guy I’m interested in and see if it’ll work.
lol ninja work.
I hate making the first move.
I wish they would come up to me and stop sniffing me out.
Well the way I look, act, talk, and think, you could never tell I’m gay. Most ppl that know I am are still unsure lol. But that has pros and cons. I don’t have to deal with the upfront bigotry, but its hard for me to get to know guys thatre gay cuz they think I’m straight.