have you ever said to yourself:
“i don’t want to be gay anymore”
…and really mean it?
there is no shame in admitting it.
we are all family in here.
i’m sure i have said it a couple times.
well it’s crazy when you interact with different foxholers,
they have many interesting ideas for their gay or bi lives.
some are truly not happy and would do anything to be fully straight.
again,
there is no shame in that.
the life is not for everyone.
well i have been speaking to a foxholer who has been going to conversion therapy.
with his permission,
i asked if i could post our conversation for the foxhole.
as usual,
he will remain anonymous.
i have a feeling some may relate to this conversation…
when he went to the therapist,
he was told to own all the freaky things he has done.
the therapist looked at him like he was a hoe.
many of us are.
he was also told to describe how he felt before, during, and after:
“Before: Bored, lonely, depressed
During: serious face
After: exhausted enough to sleep and or slightly dirty”
i asked him if he felt the same with vixens.
he admitted not really.
with males: “The sex was always a means to an end. I didn’t have to worry about expectations of a relationship or courtship like with most women.”
he told me about the first time he ever messed with a male:
“Didn’t mess with a dude until I was like 19 and stressed out during finals week. First time getting oral sex. Couldn’t stay hard even after he put my dick in his ass for a little while. From then on I usually only got with dudes when I was stressed or depressed.”
the therapist suggested something profound to him about what could have led to his attraction to males:
“He basically explained that my complicated relationship with my father could’ve led to homosexual feelings. In my case I wasn’t the most normal boy growing up and because he did not affirm who I was unconditionally, masculinity became a learner behavior, something objectified and eventually sexualized later on.
I can admit I was typically attracted to men I wanted to be and I really wanted approval.
But yeah the basic idea is where you ultimately see yourself in the future. He talked about how a lot of gay men end up being single caricatures that end up resentful towards their families and trying to have surrogate romantic relationships with men that don’t last.”
a complete “a-ha” moment with that.
the foxholer also interacted with others in the therapy:
“I just want to emphasize it’s completely voluntary and I’ve met other young people there working through their issues. The first step is acknowledging you’re having homosexual feelings or engaging in the behavior, which I found very interesting. Then moving towards the root of it. Not everyone had feelings for the same sex at 5 years old. I know my only interest was in gay porn among just about any and all porn in my late teens.
Arguable that’s impossible but it does dissipate attraction to the same sex and redirect it more to the opposite sex.
I had no emotional attachment to the same sex so it wasn’t as hard for me.
It’s not for everyone. The two dudes I talked to kind of just wanted the traditional family and kids. I asked them if they still notice attractive men and they said yes but they don’t have the desire to engage in sex with men because they know what they ultimately want.”
another “a-ha” moment.
finally,
he is moving on slowly from the life:
“I deleted the booty pic file starting in 2006 so you know it’s real. My iPhone has been delivert!
I’m mostly just ready for a change and I could feel myself slipping into depression again.
Acceptance might not be in the church for some, but it certainly isn’t in the gay culture either.
I do feel sorry for some of the men I’ve met though. I feel like there’s no chance they’ll ever find the happy ending they seek but even I’m not cold enough to tell them that.
By the standards already setup, your stock plummets with men going into the 30’s and getting older and who’s really finding love in their 40s and 50s these days? It’s like becoming a victim in the cycle you participate in.
I think about kids. If I die, my last name and family die with me. Nothing of me left behind.
i know the foxhole isn’t good for his new life.
it made me feel sad as he is so amazing to me and is moving on.
i love conversations like this tho.
it helps open up my own issues with the life as well.
i’ll be legit with you foxhole…
the life can be a bit dead end-ish.
even if you are out…
Is there anyone really happy being gay?
hell even bi?
the sex is plentiful,
but is that enough to keep you happy until you die?
you will have great lovers but no great loves.
i’m also tired of the fox shaming.
it’s all depressing and exhausting to me.
to be successful in the life,
i notice it thrives on 4 things:
a) money
b) bawdy
c) youth
d) an instagram account with over 50k followers
if you have all 4,
then you are winning.
is it really a win tho?
it all leads back to one nighters,
surface friendships,
and jack off sessions on facetime.
on the other side,
being straight doesn’t exactly mean happiness either.
there are a ton of straight wolves who are lonely out there.
they may have the option marriage and of having cubs,
but what if the relationship doesn’t work out?
not many vixens wants a divorcee with cubs these days.
God forbid it’s with different vixens.
some are even shuddering at wolves with oow cubs.
if you check the dating apps,
there are plenty of straight wolves looking for love after a failed divorce.
“hi i’m alex.
i’m a recently divorced male.
i have five lovely cubs.
looking to get back into the field and find a connection with someone.”
he is paying alimony and child support to some vixen(s) who is getting her second wind.
don’t even get me started on the even lonely vixens out here.
that is a whole nother topic.
some are lucky to find love in the life and others don’t.
does being straight give you more of an edge of happiness?
is it the same issues just with a pussy attached to it?
or is the whole world fucked when it comes to dating/love in general?
i had to wonder is it being gay that’s the issue…
…Or is it simply you?
…and that doesn’t mean you are a problem.
you just have higher expectations in a dating world that has low ones.
Y’all I im sorry that you guys have been struggling. I’m 31 and I was raised in a christian home and have struggled with my sexuality since 6yrs old.. i struggled with major depression and shame etc. This year I made up my mind I was going to be gay. I’ve been content, happy even. I enjoy being Queer. It gets lonely sometimes but i have a great support system of fierce humans around me. Im loved by an all seeing all knowing God. Ive had very little depresion since decidng to live my life as a Queer human. As i read these comments i hurt for some of you. We have to learn how to love ourselves as is. You’re enough as is.
I was already feeling down, I don’t know why I read this. The only advantage to being gay is that you can get laid pretty much whenever you want. Other wise, it sucks both ways.
I’m bit, but really too shy to even approach women. I do wish I was straight though. I’m okay with it most of the time, but once a week I really feel down. I wish I were normal.
This life can be a lot for some to handle. However, I have not reached the point where I would want to be totally straight. I think a lot of men get really discouraged when their relationships and other experiences do not go the way that they prefer, which leads them to believe they have to take an alternative route to find happiness and to be content.
I remember being in kindergarten and liking the boy and the girl that sat at my table. I was very feminine when I was younger, which my dad made me act more masculine. I remember being 14 and my dad introduced me to these guy who just moved up the street from me. The guy and I had become friends and I remember being in the house with him home alone when he started wrestling with me. We were both hard, but didn’t have sex because I think we were so young and scared. In that moment I knew I liked guys sexually. I dated females from 17 to 22 but I knew I wasn’t sexually attracted to them. I would always find something wrong with them and stop taking to them. There are days I don’t like being gay, there are days where I wish I was straight. I still want kids, I just don’t know how it’s going to happen though so that bothers me a lot I love kids and what Tajan wrote about being conditioned to have a family plays in my mind. My parents also want me to have kids. Another thing is and I don’t mean to sound vain I know I’m an attractive guy. So I always get the comments from family members damn I know you got a lot of women chasing after you. Some are just being nosy and trying to figure me out. With me being 27 I know they know about me though. When, I see my straight counterparts getting married, having kids, it does do a number on me. The straights can be single right now as I type these, but go to a club, bar, etc in a few hours and meet someone. I think it would be a little better when im out instead of discrete. I just love men, I can’t help or change the way I feel about them.
^love this eric.
i can feel the pain as i read it.
ive been there too.
surprisingly I don’t want cubs.
i just want love and a wolf to be in my life.
we can get a dog or something lol
tajan’s comment really set off some great release for so many.
Thanks Jamari, and yes Tajan comments got me in my feelings in a good way. The pain was very real Jamari for me, and I didn’t even get into the DL wolf that I was emotional involved with in my early 20s, that one day just quit talking too me and got married and had kids. That really hurt me to the core.
^oooooh I can relate babe.
it’s a pain that is needed to provide growth tho.
Personally I felt that 5 years ago, between my 18 and 24 years, because I was young, I did not take my orientation, it was difficult to live his life, to live hide, to have trouble to To tell people, especially when I went out and slept with girls just for appearances, it was horrible, I imagined my future life, having to live like this all my life was a horrible image, so I wanted to be straightforward Have a life that I found easy
Because I thought to myself that their life was easy, to be straight you had not to fight for anything
Especially the hardest when I was in love with a straight boy and I saw him with a girl, I even had a period of depression for 2 weeks because I liked a boy who went out with my best friend, I prayed to the Lord to make me hetero, heal me, I saw a priest and I went to see a Pentocotist pastor but nothing was done
But you know what jamari, today it’s all over, I’m 25 years old, and I’m more proud than ever to be gay, I like to love men especially it spares me to suffer what my straight Friends live, Be spared from woman crisis and their mood thank god,
All that we live, all the stages that we pass from the first time we know that we are different, that we feel about the same sex, everything is high and low, make Of us fighters, life we deserve it more than others, because nothing gave us, nothing brought us on a plate of glass, we fight for our freedom, we fight to be happy, to live, it Makes us warriors and that’s why we enjoy life better than straight, it feels to our way of life, to enjoy life, love, sex and our search for love because we know That once we meet the love of our life, we live it and share it without shame, without limit because we deserve it
Today I am 25 years old, I have a job that I love, I have a life that I love, everything is not perfect, but what I have today I am proud because I fought for it and today I enjoy it, the only thing I miss is to find true love, but I do not cry, I do not complain it will come at the right time, all Men I meet in my life I regret them not
and when people ask to me if one day i can be straight, did i accept? i always say OHH HELLLLL NOOOOOO
^i love this comment arjun.
thank you for sharing.
i love that you came to such a a-ha moment and are living your best life.
these comments are so inspiring.
im glad to see everyone sharing and providing so much love!
This is so interesting I’m approaching the big 30 and I have been questioning myself about this even tho I’m attracted to guys I’m as well to women,when I’m with my straights friends etc with their girlfriends,that makes me want to find one and be happy,then after that the feeling goes away and I’m back feeling the same attraction to the next negro…damn ! Life sucks! Thanks Jamari for this post that will help me to really figure out what I want for this year and so on
^welcome yaya!
make this year the one you find out what makes you happy!
This was deep real deep. Wow, I am speechless but I can relate to much of it. As I have gotten older, I have really been having pains, that I want share with anyone about not having any kids. Sometimes I wish I would have just went ahead and at least lived a lie for a little while to have a child, but a part of me always knew that would be unfair to the child and the mother if she really loved me for being a Str8 male. The funny thing though is I have a Str8 Best Friend who has children and his kids share things with me that they feel they cant share with him. Many Str8 fathers are selfish and act like spoiled children themselves and miss out on really getting to know their children. I think Gay men have a sensitivity and feeling that people pick up on and that is why many Str8 people end up opening up more to them. I am many people therapist all the while I have no one I can turn too about my own issues.
One of the things I hate about being gay is my lack of confidence in doing Str8 things. I really wanted to pledge Kappa while I was in college but I was so afraid that someone would find out about me and I would be shamed. I had no idea at the time that I would have not been alone. It has been many things that I have not done like volunteering to mentor young boys. Even though I think I have a lot to offer and would be a good mentor, I never wanted to be caught into anything because of my sexuality. I had a gay friend who was mentor and the child mother found out he was gay and caused all kinds of confusion.
Another thing I feel especially for Black Gay Men is that we do not realize how much the shame of our community does to our psyche and how insecure it makes us. It is like we can not live fully without the gossip and innuendo from our Str8 family. Throw in religion and the Black Church and many of us are damaged beyond repair. We can never find this elusive love because we have never really loved ourselves. Most of us who are over 30 years old are damaged goods almost beyond fixing. We get into these relationships all through our life but realistically the chances for us are even slimmer than for Str8 Black couples who have their own set of issues. I am learning that you got to keep trying to find that happiness no matter what. It takes a lot of soul searching. Sadly, it not many therapist we can relate too and feel comfortable with sharing our burdens. I would think I hit the lottery if I found a Black Gay Therapist who I could relate too.
I hope the foxholer can find the peace that they are seeking. No one goes through this life having it easy. My Str8 counterparts have children so rotten that I dont envy them at all even though I want some of my own but I think alot of that is because that has been drilled in my head from birth that a man is nothing without a family. Str8 thinking can mess many a gay man up because many times we feel we must live up to their ideals about relationship and do all that they do because we have no other model to base our relationships on. It is almost funny how each side thinks the grass is greener, how many times have your Str8 friends said damn I wish I could travel like you and not worry about taking care of these kids and you feel some kind of way during holidays and special times like graduations for those with kids who adore them wishing you had a child to share memories with.
Let me close by saying I love the foxhole and the great conversations we have in here. I know I am long winded but I hope somebody can get something out what I say.
^I LOVE THIS T!!!!
omg this is amazing!!!
you hit the nail on the head about straight fathers!!!
it’s like we become secret co-parents to these cubs.
don’t even get me started on being the therapist and the pitbull.
i want more!!!
don’t be scared to share your stories foxhole!
Tajan thank you for sharing brother you always leave the best comments.
Amen!!! This was 100% real. Thank you for this.
You are truly a beautiful man Tajan. You’re absolutely right. There really is no model for what “gay” life looks like when we age. It’s never been a “thing”, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong or that it doesn’t exist, nor that it can’t ever work out. I don’t have to privilege of being attracted to both sexes so I don’t have a choice but to forge that life for myself and be innovative. We have to be the ones to shape what that life is supposed to look like. The problem is, there’s not many people who are gay and have a large influencing actually DOING these things, maybe aside from George Takei. Point being, we need MORE, much more.
To have a family (in the traditional sense) isn’t EVERYTHING in life, if you can believe it, it just seems so “normal” and inevitable for straights and even bi men. There are still other things that one can do to find fulfillment if a family is not in the cards.That being said, that’s not to say that I wouldn’t want kids or a family for myself and leave behind a “legacy” and our foxholer certainly isn’t wrong about the thing’s he’s said. I understand where he’s coming from. Family does matter, and has great value, but for those who don’t have that option, are forced to find some other type of fulfillment or risk rotting away having nothing to leave behind. For example, if I’m not able to have my own family, I will find ways to help other youth, perhaps other gay black (or other minorities) youth that are struggling, or those that are poor and need help. Having your own kids doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t have a family, it’s just a different kind of family… There are more ways than one to live this life, not just the one that your parents or society wants, though, admittedly, it’s never easy being on the outside, but we’re already there so it’s not foreign territory.
Foxholer, I really do hope that you’re able to find what you’re looking for, I think perhaps, your issue has never been who you’ve slept with, nor your sexuality, but whatever internal conflict you’re having (stemming from childhood and acceptance?) hm. I think most of us fall under some form of that, regardless of orientations. It’s safe to say that childhood and the notion of being loved is important to “all of us” no matter how tough you become, this world is hard if you feel lonely and inadequate. I think you just need to do out whatever it is that will make you happy, and just do it, you seem to march to the beat of your own drum (but there’s probably plenty others like you out here) and there’s nothing wrong with that, and if possible, try to get some closure from your father, your internal conflict may never end until that happens. Find your happiness bro! Whatever that may be. *tips hat*
“I think Gay men have a sensitivity and feeling that people pick up on and that is why many Str8 people end up opening up more to them. I am many people therapist all the while I have no one I can turn too about my own issues.”
You better preach it 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
This was an amazing post that really made me think about how my life has gone. I was one of those little boys that liked the same sex at 5 years old, and all my life I have battle with my sexuality. I hated that I was gay/bi and still do from time to Tell myself my 13 I will be straight lol. Didn’t have sex with a girl til I was 21. I was more surprise my dick got hard. I can say I like men more than women. I grew up with out a father, and manhood, and love was self taught.
I want to find love and I want kids, but I don’t know if it will ever happen
^im so glad this entry brought about so much thought!
id love to see more from more foxholers!
i know they all have stories to share that can help each other!
thank you for the comment texasboy!
Your last question was ironically the answer. It is simply just you. I love everything about being gay and the community. If there were a pill that could turn us straight, I would laugh at it and politely decline. Being gay isn’t the issue. It could be the shame you feel due to your raising and how people around you feel about homosexuality. Groupthink is POWERFUL. You don’t need the four things listed to be happy. Those are the things that this generation of gays focuses on because that’s what we’re shown is the gold ticket to being a happy gay men. Your issues with the community aren’t the community’s issues, they’re yours.
^+10 foxhole points.
This is the message that needs to be preacher!
I love it!
BOOM! Yes! This answer is everything!
First I want to thank the foxholder who was brave enough to share his experience with us through this foxmail .
I used to ( and still from time to time when I’m feeling low lol) think that being gay made it harder to find love but now I think it depends on the person and other factors. Where you’re spending your energy looking for it and with who makes a difference.
^i feel looking for someone puts unrealistic standards on you.
making money and going farther is currently the situation.
i get lonely,
but I’d rather be that then being cheated on or wondering where my wolf is.
Finding love is a bitch. Doesn’t matter your orientation. I used to think I was doomed to be single forever because I was gay, but then I started to watch my straight friends. Their love lives aren’t any better than mine. There was a time when I wished that I wasn’t gay but I realized wishing for it not to exist doesn’t make it go away, so I learned to accept it and i’m a better MAN because of it.
^hmm good comment tl.
yeah a lot of my straight friends lives are in shambles.
the worse is the one who got pregnant for in relationship hell.
couldn’t do it.
Yikes…… Don’t think I could do it either. I’ve stopped looking for love. I want to be in love again but it’s no longer my focus. Right now i’m focused on living my best life and becoming the person I want to be whether i’m with someone or not. When the universe is ready for me to have a lover he’ll come my way. If I put out good energy, I know it’ll come back my way eventually.
^WORD!
TaureanLuv
I agree with everything you posted on here.
💯💯